The Elder Scrolls Online

Utnayan · Feb 26, 2014

Vandyn_sl said:
This is my concern as well. Is it anything close to Skyrim? How on rails is the leveling?

It's like any other theme park. You are in the same zone for the leveling experience. Rather than quest hubs, POI's show up on your compass and you go there - that is the "exploration piece." So rather than chase 5 "!"'s on your mini map, you chase the POI on your compass and the quest hub (either large or small) is in that location. Basically it's just another quest hub in a different flavor to give you the impression you are exploring. You can chase those POI's within the leveling zone, but if you are under-leveled when you reach said quest, you may have trouble. Some call that the challenge. Basically envision being level 10 as an undead in Tirisfal Glades, and going to a quest hub via your Minimap finding level 12-14 quests in Sepulcher and doing those instead. The optimal solution is to go through the main story line and as you do, you will see POI's show up on your compass that will be appropriate level.

Remember that Skyrim is an RPG with open world freedom and various things to explore/find on your own before they are added to your map/compass/fast travel. This is a theme park MMORPG with a new gimmick for presenting exploration, when really, it isn't. It's just a new way to present quest hubs to the player. You won't be going outside your level appropriate area until you complete that level appropriate area. There are a plethora of keys out there. Make sure to grab one from one of the sites and try it out this weekend.

Keep in mind that it is of my opinion the collision detection will do nothing to help the weightless feel of combat, much less the responiveness and broken action layered concept with tab target control. WoW doesn't have NPC collision either, but the main UI is responsive without a layered action tier. That is what is making the difference in feel. Blizzard, from onset, have always been proponents about easy to use and very responsive UI and combat control.

Tarrant · Feb 26, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
Utnayan would tell you No and if you come back later and post you liked the game and had fun, call you a paid shill for Zenimax.

For the most part everyone else is saying various degrees of Yes. It really all depends on what your criteria is to have fun in a MMO. Some like the PVP but hate the PVE, some like both.

If you keep bring up Ut I'm just going to let him go nuts and shit up the thread at will. Stop bitching about him when he posts and then when he bows out keep trying to bait him. Let it go and move on.

Ko Dokomo_sl · Feb 26, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
Keep in mind that it is of my opinion the collision detection will do nothing to help the weightless feel of combat, much less the responiveness and broken action layered concept with tab target control. WoW doesn't have NPC collision either, but the main UI is responsive without a layered action tier. That is what is making the difference in feel. Blizzard, from onset, have always been proponents about easy to use and very responsive UI and combat control.

I'll be giving it a try this weekend, but this is the thing that ruined LotRO and so many other MMO's for me. If your game is not as responsive as WoW, the enjoyment drops instantly.

mkopec · Feb 26, 2014

Ko Dokomo_sl said:
I'll be giving it a try this weekend, but this is the thing that ruined LotRO and so many other MMO's for me. If your game is not as responsive as WoW, the enjoyment drops instantly.

Its not that bad dude. I went in thinking the same thing, some sloppy seconds type shit that didnt work from all the stuff you hear from the naysayers here. Its different, Ill give it that, but when you fuck around with it for a while, it works and it is responsive.

Regime · Feb 26, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
I laughed.

I'll laugh harder on April 4th.

My new toon is UtnayanDefenderOfMidgard bro

rhinohelix · Feb 26, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
It's like any other theme park. You are in the same zone for the leveling experience. Rather than quest hubs, POI's show up on your compass and you go there - that is the "exploration piece." So rather than chase 5 "!"'s on your mini map, you chase the POI on your compass and the quest hub (either large or small) is in that location. Basically it's just another quest hub in a different flavor to give you the impression you are exploring. You can chase those POI's within the leveling zone, but if you are under-leveled when you reach said quest, you may have trouble. Some call that the challenge. Basically envision being level 10 as an undead in Tirisfal Glades, and going to a quest hub via your Minimap finding level 12-14 quests in Sepulcher and doing those instead. The optimal solution is to go through the main story line and as you do, you will see POI's show up on your compass that will be appropriate level.

Remember that Skyrim is an RPG with open world freedom and various things to explore/find on your own before they are added to your map/compass/fast travel. This is a theme park MMORPG with a new gimmick for presenting exploration, when really, it isn't. It's just a new way to present quest hubs to the player. You won't be going outside your level appropriate area until you complete that level appropriate area. There are a plethora of keys out there. Make sure to grab one from one of the sites and try it out this weekend.

Keep in mind that it is of my opinion the collision detection will do nothing to help the weightless feel of combat, much less the responiveness and broken action layered concept with tab target control. WoW doesn't have NPC collision either, but the main UI is responsive without a layered action tier. That is what is making the difference in feel. Blizzard, from onset, have always been proponents about easy to use and very responsive UI and combat control.

While there are bread crumb quests which follow the major story lines for each zone/area/region, nothing is preventing you from running around and finding things to do on your own apart from these. They presents themselves as quests, to be sure, but they are not bread crumbed at all, and these dot the landscape out past the starter islands. There are also any number of quest lines that revolve around the various in-game guilds that take you to various places.

So, is it as free-form as Skyrim? No. Is it exclusively on-rails quest hub-centric? I don't think so.

asfastasican_sl · Feb 26, 2014

Rhinohelix_sl said:
While there are bread crumb quests which follow the major story lines for each zone/area/region, nothing is preventing you from running around and finding things to do on your own apart from these. They presents themselves as quests, to be sure, but they are not bread crumbed at all, and these dot the landscape out past the starter islands. There are also any number of quest lines that revolve around the various in-game guilds that take you to various places.

So, is it as free-form as Skyrim? No. Is it on-rails quest hub-centric? I don't think so.

If you want exploration and no hubs, go play GW2. Not joking either. GW2 even does skill points better than ESO does skyshards. And yeah, Skyrim beats the shit out of ESO as far as exploration goes.

The PvP is alright and its the game's selling point, but it's no better than DAoC, Warhammer, or even WoW PvP in its prime. I'll even go as far to say that it's on the same level as GW2's PvP or worse. This game needs more elite mobs really REALLY badly. And you can't even get to that first instance fast enough.

Utnayan · Feb 26, 2014

Rhinohelix_sl said:
While there are bread crumb quests which follow the major story lines for each zone/area/region, nothing is preventing you from running around and finding things to do on your own apart from these. They presents themselves as quests, to be sure, but they are not bread crumbed at all, and these dot the landscape out past the starter islands. [

They dot the landscape in the form of POI's marked on your compass. That's a breadcrumb. Presented in a different way. Once you are going through the story line, your compass will have some things you will want to go see. If you keep going in a different direction other than where the main story takes you, sooner or later (Depending on the direction and at what level you do this) you will be taken to POI's meant for when you are high level within the same zone. The POI's that show on your compass while you are appropriate level for the main story quest, will be level appropriate with you.

So for example, if you are level 12, and you go off exploring, sooner or later you will come to a set of POI's that are meant to be seen on the compass when you are level 15. Your POI's are showing on that compass at that point in time because the game thinks you are close to the level 15 story NPC and will see those and go off to see them. (Where the quest hubs are)

All they did was change the way they throw you the breadcrumb. But it is nothing like Skyrim where you should look to see a cool building in the game, without it bering on your map or compass, only to show up when you get closer, and you could also most likely explore that POI, go through what is in that POI, and go to another completely different part of the game regardless of what level you were.

Edit: Now mind you, this is their new way of presenting side quests. It's a new twist, and it's a theme park MMORPG and they wanted to try a new way of presenting that other than talk to an NPC, get sent to a place on the map, do the side quests. The only difference now is that the side quests aren't in one group, you just see where to go for those side quests by looking at your compass. Beneath the hood it's just painted differently. At the end of the day, rather than looking at a minimap, your new minimap is a compass.

Pyksel · Feb 26, 2014

UT is absolutely correct about the POI's in the game. You go to a POI because you know that there is an objective there and you can confirm you've completed the said objective by hovering over the POI on the map and it will tell you just what was accomplished. There's nothing that is guiding you to those POI's specifically but I think his point is even showing them on the map is a breadcrumb. The only thing I'll say to that is that you can pretty much go where you want on the map but eventually you WILL be going to those POI's to complete the objectives there or you will find yourself under leveled. So it's not on rails but it sure would give it a higher sense of exploration by removing them from the map all together until you've completed them.

Rescorla_sl · Feb 26, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
They dot the landscape in the form of POI's marked on your compass. That's a breadcrumb. Presented in a different way. Once you are going through the story line, your compass will have some things you will want to go see. If you keep going in a different direction other than where the main story takes you, sooner or later (Depending on the direction and at what level you do this) you will be taken to POI's meant for when you are high level within the same zone. The POI's that show on your compass while you are appropriate level for the main story quest, will be level appropriate with you.

I don't think we are even playing the same game. All of the main story line quests originate out of the Harborage which is always in the first major zone for each faction. When you want to progress the main story line, you leave the zone you are in and always return to the Harborage.

As far as I can tell the compass in ESO works identical to how it worked in Skyrim and Oblivion. POIs don't display on the compass until you are close enough to them. POIs don't get displayed on your map until you get close enough to them to get the discovery message.

mrmoneda_sl · Feb 26, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
As far as I can tell the compass in ESO works identical to how it worked in Skyrim and Oblivion.

I don't recall Oblivion too well but the compass and points of interest in TESO work identically to how they work in Skyrim. There are already ~*true Elder Scrolls fans*~ mad that this game isn't as much like the single-player games as they'd like.

Rescorla_sl · Feb 26, 2014

mkopec_sl said:
Its not that bad dude. I went in thinking the same thing, some sloppy seconds type shit that didnt work from all the stuff you hear from the naysayers here. Its different, Ill give it that, but when you fuck around with it for a while, it works and it is responsive.

When I push a button, something happens. If that isn't responsive, I don't know what is.

With that said, Zenimax has already acknowledged an issue with combat lag that was addressed in the .17 and .171 patches. I have experienced the combat lag myself but very intermittently. The only times I have ever had it happen to me is when fighting three linked PVE mobs. Haven't had a problem with it at all since the .18 patch knock on wood.

Pyksel · Feb 26, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
POIs don't display on the compass until you are close enough to them. POIs don't get displayed on your map until you get close enough to them to get the discovery message.

First time zoning over in Auridon and you'll see that there is only 1 POI shown (marked in red):

Pyksel · Feb 26, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
When I push a button, something happens. If that isn't responsive, I don't know what is.

With that said, Zenimax has already acknowledged an issue with combat lag that was addressed in the .17 and .171 patches. I have experienced the combat lag myself but very intermittently. The only times I have ever had it happen to me is when fighting three linked PVE mobs. Haven't had a problem with it at all since the .18 patch knock on wood.

It is by no means flawless as you're eluding to as even the most recent PTS will tell you that sometimes there are sync issues with pressing that button, your weapon connecting, and the mob responding. Sometimes you'll continue swinging with no reactionary from the mob and then it just dies. Now it has definitely gotten better but this has been a problem since March of 2013.

InterSlayer_sl · Feb 26, 2014

Didn't enjoy previous weekends, extra key up for grabs:

MT5RFANA6DNYH9C3X9XD

Rescorla_sl · Feb 26, 2014

pyksel_sl said:
First time zoning over in Auridon and you'll see that there is only 1 POI shown (marked in red):

Ok. Thank you for proving my point. Your position is the blue cursor. The only POI on the map is the one you got close enough for it to register. It's also possible that a NPC you talked to marked your map or you found a note that marked your map.

For the rest of the map, nothing shows up until you get close enough to it. That's exactly how it worked in Skyrim and Oblivion.

Vitality · Feb 26, 2014

pyksel_sl said:
It is by no means flawless as you're eluding to as even the most recent PTS will tell you that sometimes there are sync issues with pressing that button, your weapon connecting, and the mob responding. Sometimes you'll continue swinging with no reactionary from the mob and then it just dies. Now it has definitely gotten better but this has been a problem since March of 2013.

Your sync description reminds me of SW:ToR and the Hero Engine, man my lightsaber would do the guido fist pump before it connected.

Are all of my hopes in this game going to be crushed in a Electro Trance Blowout?

TrollfaceDeux · Feb 26, 2014

this game is so good.

Cinge · Feb 26, 2014

Not sure why it matters, it's still quest driven game with hubs, just fewer amount of total quest. And like all quest based games not all quest are given at a hub, some are found while out and about doing other quest that you won't see until you actually run into them. A POI is just a different ! but visible from farther away.

Not saying its a bad thing though, I can do quest based games or grind based games or event based gamed(which are just another version of quest). Just to answer someone's earlier question about how this game is(from what i've seen). It would have been cool if it was setup so I could play it like I did skyrim where I just ran from random huge dungeon I discovered to another one, but alas didn't happen.

Parallel45 · Feb 26, 2014

Ko Dokomo_sl said:
If your game is not as responsive as WoW, the enjoyment drops instantly.

This is so true. You would think by now this would be a given for all modern MMOs that they must have responsive combat and the rock solid net code to support it.

This is the same thing that ultimately killed games like war, ffxiv, and swtor for me. The constant dropped inputs and positional lag just got too annoying after a while.

Eso already feels less responsive than all of those games. It's like the devs spent all their time on higher level game systems and completely forget about the basics.

I'll give the beta another try this weekend to check if collision detection helps, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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The Elder Scrolls Online

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