The Elder Scrolls Online

nm.... misunderstood post.

Tuco_sl said:

A lot of people are cancelling their purchase from GMG. No idea how much loss GMG from cancellations but I hope it's zero.

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So will PRX play a game with no nameplates allowed in PvP ?

all the best pvp games have no nameplates.

Byr_sl said:

all the best pvp games have no nameplates.

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no nameplates irl!

Tuco_sl said:

We will play and we will win.

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As long as all of us are blindfolded, together!

Rhinohelix_sl said:

Seriously, STFU and GTFO with the SHILL!!!!11!! BS. It was stupid and lame when it was all the rage before, and it still is. The same cast of folks on both sides hasn't really changed that much, other than a few folks who were on the fence pre-ordering and then changing their minds when the last beta weekend patch didn't address the quest/spawn phase instance issue. If they don't fix it, the retail launch will explode and then you asshats can all have a great laugh that your side won. Until then...

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Decaffinated. That's about all I'm gonna say to that. I think you take the jokes a bit too seriously. If he softballs it up there, I'm gonna hit it.

Menion_sl said:

They haven't sent me those out yet. The only codes I have received from GMG was the 2 beta weekend codes. But I never used them since everyone I knew who wanted access already had it and I am in the PTS.

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Ah weird, my early access code came with the receipt. Then a separate email with the 2 beta keys

So, I've been thinking about this whole API change thing. I could understand them not wanting you to necessarily see what buffs/debuffs your enemies have on them, or cast bars/timers for enemies, because all that shit would allow for macros to play PVP for you: Your macro sees that your enemy is casting a spell? Insta cast interrupt. Your macro sees that your enemy has fire resist on him? Big flashing letters saying, "NO FIRE DAMAGE!" Etc. But why shouldn't you see if you are being hit by fire or ice damage? Well, what if your macro allows you to insta cast or quaff some kind resistance? What if a big red banner says "INC FIRE DAMAGE!!" Okay, okay, that's lame, so why the FUCK shouldn't I be allowed to see the timers on my short term buffs? Well, there are some pretty badass short term buffs in this game (magma armor, lightning form, etc.) If the API allows timers, it will enable macros to keep these spells up with zero downtime. It removes an element of skill from the game, and I'm willing to try it without all those crutches for a while.

Sorry, but I don't like playing pvp where people have macros doing the hardest parts of their jobs for them.

The biggest thing I care about is that we will still be able to run a DPS meter on ourselves and see how various builds do. Still gonna be able to see your own loot, etc. Supposedly they're adding in some kind of info screen that dumps a bunch of data at you when you die, too. Presumably you'll be able to see exactly who killed you and how.

On another note: People keep bringing up EQNext and Landmark. Personally, I hope Ponytail can come up with something awesome a couple years down the road. Something really revolutionary. I'm all for it. I'm going to keep an open mind, even though his presentation where everyone kept exclaiming about "OMG VOXELS! You can BLOW THE ROAD UP!" bugged the shit out of me. If the art doesn't evolve to a bit more realistic/gritty fantasy, I'm not sure I can be down with it though. I hate playing Saturday morning cartoons.

Blackwulf_sl said:

So, I've been thinking about this whole API change thing. I could understand them not wanting you to necessarily see what buffs/debuffs your enemies have on them, or cast bars/timers for enemies, because all that shit would allow for macros to play PVP for you:

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Or, you know, you can make it so mods can't do that. Like WoW does it.

"To stop macros" is complete bullshit as justification, as there are plenty of ways to prevent that in other ways that don't involve crippling the API.

Tuco_sl said:

The macro thing is a red herring. Third party macros to automatically respond to notifications aren't that common for high level PVP in these games. People would rather have a big thing pop up and have them make the choice to press the button.

It's just a red herring / smokescreen to get people to swallow the idea of having an awful UI.

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khalid_sl said:

Or, you know, you can make it so mods can't do that. Like WoW does it.

"To stop macros" is complete bullshit as justification, as there are plenty of ways to prevent that in other ways that don't involve crippling the API.

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I'll take your guys word for it. I never got into WOW, but I hear stories about fucking godawful UI mods that basically play the game for you. If those things don't really happen, then, I agree, what's the big deal. I did read a couple reports from PTS players that this shit was happening, though. Maybe they were lying: I never saw it with my own eyes.

I really don't get the angst, though; I have thousands of hours in DAOC - the only UI mods I used were cosmetic, and I never once ran a dps meter. I still managed to have shit loads of fun and kick lots of ass; like seriously - RR 11+ (before all the inflation patches) and top of leader boards most of the times I played. If limiting the API keeps this game even slightly more "daoc-like" then I'm in favor.

Blackwulf_sl said:

I'll take your guys word for it. I never got into WOW, but I hear stories about fucking godawful UI mods that basically play the game for you. If those things don't really happen, then, I agree, what's the big deal. I did read a couple reports from PTS players that this shit was happening, though. Maybe they were lying: I never saw it with my own eyes.

I really don't get the angst, though; I have thousands of hours in DAOC - the only UI mods I used were cosmetic, and I never once ran a dps meter. I still managed to have shit loads of fun and kick lots of ass; like seriously - RR 11+ (before all the inflation patches) and top of leader boards most of the times I played. If limiting the API keeps this game even slightly more "daoc-like" then I'm in favor.

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I don't remember a lot about daoc, it's been so long. Could you see hots cast on someone with the default UI or dots cast on a mob or enemy player?

Abefroman_sl said:

People who don't want to pvp? Isn't gear from PVE good in pvp also?

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Yes; in fact some gear drops are parts of sets that one cannot yet craft.

Abefroman_sl said:

I don't remember a lot about daoc, it's been so long. Could you see hots cast on someone with the default UI or dots cast on a mob or enemy player?

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Now you got my wheels turning. Yeah that shit would show up in the group window. Little icons by their names. My group healer isn't real happy with ESO default ui. He does concede, however, that mechanics are pretty different. Very little need to target heal, etc. Positional and smart heals rule the day. Hmm.. ship's gonna be interesting.

Ps, I'm half a bottle into my wine. Sorry for strange syntax.

Regarding API changes, anyone saying "immersion", "it's the developers vision" or "it allows cheating / macroing exploiting" is a fool. Zenimas has only one vision, the same vision any company got before launch, their own Holy Trinity : money, PR, and production costs. They don't care about anything else. API changes cost less money (you don't have to spend ressources on permanently update / develop / watch API and addons, you just forbid almost everything and then you're set. PR is casual gamers outcry from places like r/elderscrollsonline, Tamriel Foundry etc calling out Zenimax on last beta weekend. They're casual gamers, they don't want to install or manage addons and they surely don't want other players to do it (because playing with addons against someone without addons is cheating, right). Production costs, it's way more cheap to stick to one minimalistic UI than developping features (like the nameplates one in TESO, which mysteriously disappeared) or allowing players doing it (since you have to watch and manage them in the process).

There is also the "no addons means no exploiting / macroing" debate. It often originates when dumb people communicate with each other on forums and / or extremely casual players who don't have a clue about anything. First, nowadays some keyboards (Razer, Logitech, etc) allow you to create and configure macros. You can loop anything, you can program a series of actions, anything really. You don't need a stupid addon to do that. Second, it's not unfair, because anyone (and by anyone I mean I'm quite sure even zoo chimpanzees can unrar and drag / drop a folder on Windows) can install addons. This is not a disadvantage when anyone can have it. You don't want it ? Your choice, same for the other guy wanting it. It's all about choices. Some people like to "theorycraft". They like raw numbers, data, combat logs, etc. They wanna know on the spot what / who killed them and figure how. They wanna see more than hits taking away chunks of health bar. They want to understand game mechanics and perfect the best rotation. It's dumb ? Maybe, but again it's about choices. If you don't wanna do all of these then don't, but don't go mad because others want to. By not wanting them having the possibility to do so, you are the one creating a disadvantage, because you're enforcing your ideal vision in a topic where anyone should be able to benefit from flexibility and choices. It's like people buying houses, you wouldn't enforce the same patio, the same garage door, the same stupid garden gnomes for everyone, right ? We can all live in the same city, but we can also all have a different house.

Bondurant, you lose credibility when, instead of logic, you use inflammatory language to describe people that disagree with you. I could go on, but I'm not in a mood to be verbose. Well, here's one way you're wrong: macros that you create via a Razor or whatever are very different than macros that automatically fire based on game events.

Blackwulf_sl said:

Bondurant, you lose credibility when, instead of logic, you use inflammatory language to describe people that disagree with you. I could go on, but I'm not in a mood to be verbose. Well, here's one way you're wrong: macros that you create via a Razor or whatever are very different than macros that automatically fire based on game events.

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You can easily prevent that via API, so it's not even a subject.

Blackwulf_sl said:

Bondurant, you lose credibility when, instead of logic, you use inflammatory language to describe people that disagree with you. I could go on, but I'm not in a mood to be verbose. Well, here's one way you're wrong: macros that you create via a Razor or whatever are very different than macros that automatically fire based on game events.

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That is sort of what I understood. When you can pull straight from the game data then you can build reactive macros. If you cannot pull the data as it flows then your macros are harder to make autoreactive to game events.

I am not some polyanna fanbois but I hope that they realize they have gone too far by not allowing healers to get information they need to heal. That's an actual in game problem and more important to me than not being able to make a good damage meter.

Dmitry_sl said:

That is sort of what I understood. When you can pull straight from the game data then you can build reactive macros. If you cannot pull the data as it flows then your macros are harder to make autoreactive to game events.

I am not some polyanna fanbois but I hope that they realize they have gone too far by not allowing healers to get information they need to heal. That's an actual in game problem and more important to me than not being able to make a good damage meter.

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I agree with this - my group's healer isn't really happy. He's badass, though, so he'll adapt. Would be nice if they give more info about groupmates at least.