The Elder Scrolls Online

Derpa_sl said:

FYI releases April 3rd in NA. Go ahead and check their FAQ

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Looks like you are correct. I made the mistake of assuming April 4 and 5 day early access meant exactly that and not April 3 and 4 day early access.

asfastasican_sl said:

But then again PvP in MMO's is inherently flawed. At least if you are on the underdog side you get recognized instantly for being a badass instead of looking like skilled player using crutches. It's hard to look like a big contributor while sucking on the baby pacifier in your mouth.

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So true.

If you've ever had really great PvP in a game (like many in DAoC from what I read), you spend the rest of your gaming life trying to find better or at the least, try to recreate it. But the problem is that just like someone's first great raid in WoW, you'll forever spend your time doing that. The things that made DAoC good was a freak storm that happened at the right time.. most players weren't too jaded yet, most losses weren't taken personally and gave you a reason to come back, and the community was pretty much of the same mind not 'win or bust in three months or I'm out'.

Too many players from too many games now converge on the new game... whatever that is, and then try to make that happen. Usually it's a faceroll for someone (teams that already went through that learning curve like PRX) and people who want to be a part of that from the beginning and not work their way up/out from the bottom because that's 'not fun'.

I think that's why I've seen people crying to ZOS about adding arenas and battlegrounds on forums: it's far easier to take your small premade in someplace and be the hero outright overnight than to try and corral a couple hundred kittens into a fighting force.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

So true.

If you've ever had really great PvP in a game (like many in DAoC from what I read), you spend the rest of your gaming life trying to find better or at the least, try to recreate it. But the problem is that just like someone's first great raid in WoW, you'll forever spend your time doing that. The things that made DAoC good was a freak storm that happened at the right time.. most players weren't too jaded yet, most losses weren't taken personally and gave you a reason to come back, and the community was pretty much of the same mind not 'win or bust in three months or I'm out'.

Too many players from too many games now converge on the new game... whatever that is, and then try to make that happen. Usually it's a faceroll for someone (teams that already went through that learning curve like PRX) and people who want to be a part of that from the beginning and not work their way up/out from the bottom because that's 'not fun'.

I think that's why I've seen people crying to ZOS about adding arenas and battlegrounds on forums: it's far easier to take your small premade in someplace and be the hero outright overnight than to try and corral a couple hundred kittens into a fighting force.

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You'd be surprised at how much effort it takes to run a successful small man group in cyrodiil compared to just slamming 150 kittens into a wall.

A lot of strategy goes into making sure a small gank group actually has fun without getting absolutely murdered.

Example: Titty Rock

Rescorla_sl said:

I don't get the "running for the sake of running" complaint. Each zone has its own main quest line that moves you through the zone. Along the way while you are out and about you run into quest NPCs who give you a quest for that general vicinity. Only time I notice the amount of time I spend running from point A to point B is when I return back to a main city to sell, craft, and visit the bank.

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It was more of a general statement about questing. There is some of it in ESO but nothing like FF. Overall, I like the questing in ESO and I wasn't even going to play this game. Positive reviews convinced me to try it out.

Vitality_sl said:

You'd be surprised at how much effort it takes to run a successful small man group in cyrodiil compared to just slamming 150 kittens into a wall.

A lot of strategy goes into making sure a small gank group actually has fun without getting absolutely murdered.

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No, I didn't mean a pre-made in Cryo. Not talking about that. I'm talking about general expectations regarding PvPers nowadays vs the older expectations and not in an 'age' way.

Pretty sure back in DAoC days, you had a lot of people who would join a side and pretty much stick to it whether they were winning a little, or winning a lot. The expectation was 'if we keep at it, we'll get better' regardless of the time you had to put in and the losing wasn't that important overall. You didn't mind hours and hours of something that might not pan out because it was still fairly new (RvRvR) and you were (collectively) having fun.

I don't think that's true nowadays after the advent/popularity/rise of arenas, battlefields and leaderboards in every mmo and pseudo-mmo to date. People are more apt to leave things that take time much faster because unlike an arena, campaigns take a shitload more time and effort to do with possibly no reward or payoff in the end for the hours you spent in there, or after you cap someone wakes up at X ungodly hour to wipe it out. That's why you have things like 'deserter debuffs' and such because a lot of PvPers simply aren't going to stick around for the L anymore. Arenas/battlegrounds on the other hand provide instant feedback and rewards for well equipped premades so it's a lot easier (as you just pointed out) to take a small-man group into an arena than to exist in Cryo.

I'm pretty sure they know that already and that's why they want arenas added (or will howl collectively later on for).

Idk.. does that just sound like too much old-man reminiscing? I'm guilty of that from time to time.

I cant lockpick a basic chest for the life of me.
Are there any chest lockpick simulators around or can anyone give me some tips please, its sad I know.

People didn't move much in early DAOC because it was fucking brutal to do so. Once you established yourself on a server it was also significantly easier to go through a second+ time on alts. Later on that changed with account swapping and as people made alts on other servers but the point stands.

Recent games have made it generally a pain in the balls to have alts. Mostly because of metered access at end game consisting of dailies tied to faction gain and scripted on rails progression through the entire game. So the second run through feels significantly more of a PIA than say on DAOC where if you had a full SC set you could plow through shit much less if you had a PL 50 that could PBAOE or Necro spam pull to max in a day with full auto train. Not too mention the developers didn't care if you tasked to max, ground mobs in some off the beaten path or did a million dungeon runs etc.

Games themselves have changed pretty significantly. The current crop of games essentially jams a finger in each nostril and drags you on some pre planned path. Anything other than that play is nerfed / called an exploit / removed because they want you to play the game their way. You will play the game their way or no way.

Previous games give you the world and the content and let you do whatever the fuck you want in between. Hopefully we see a return to that in future games with some sand box elements / economic reasons for players to interact as opposed to the bull shit train tracks we have now.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

No, I didn't mean a pre-made in Cryo. Not talking about that. I'm talking about general expectations regarding PvPers nowadays vs the older expectations and not in an 'age' way.

Idk.. does that just sound like too much old-man reminiscing? I'm guilty of that from time to time.

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I mean I agree with you, WoW pretty much "McDonalds'd" the mmo genre in this regard. Todays gamer absolutely loathes the "L".

In cyrodiil, the reward is there for the "L", as long as you get some kills, or some healing in you're bound to be rewarded for your efforts.

Sure accessibility could be better, IE: implementing Planetside's Instant Action deal, or making respawn tents more permanent. I'll give you that.

But implementing BG's and Arenas effectively consolidates the pvp community down to a personal level and guilds and keeps and all that large scale value just goes straight into the toilet.

Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl said:

I cant lockpick a basic chest for the life of me.
Are there any chest lockpick simulators around or can anyone give me some tips please, its sad I know.

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Spoiler below










Lock picking becomes significantly easier once you realize there are only 3 possible locations for the tumblers. Once you know where those 3 locations are, you just have to be ready to click when it gets close to that spot.

Vitality_sl said:

I mean I agree with you, WoW pretty much "McDonalds'd" the mmo genre in this regard. Todays gamer absolutely loathes the "L".

In cyrodiil, the reward is there for the "L", as long as you get some kills, or some healing in you're bound to be rewarded for your efforts.

Sure accessibility could be better, IE: implementing Planetside's Instant Action deal, or making respawn tents more permanent. I'll give you that.

But implementing BG's and Arenas effectively consolidates the pvp community down to a personal level and guilds and keeps and all that large scale value just goes straight into the toilet.

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As a gamer with limited time to play and who likes to PVP, there are a lot of pros to the WoW PVP design. If I only have 30-60 minutes of time to play, playing in a battleground minigame is sometimes more preferable than roaming the countryside in a RvR game looking for some PVP action with no guarantee you will ever see any before you have to log off. I personally hope battleground PVP is eventually added to TESO for that reason.

Hopefully once TESO fully launches the campaigns will start to balance out and there will be a lot of action.

Beef Supreme_sl said:

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I think it all depends on what's gained. If someone sees the rewards gained from an arena setting as better for thempersonally, they probably will chose a pre-made route.

Example: a nice feature of Cryo is the Emperor award. Now I'm pretty sure when the typical PvPer reads that, they think in the back of their minds: "NICE! Perhaps one day I'LL be emperor if I'm good enough or my guild is good enough" when in reality, they have no fucking shot in Hell at it since only one person can be it. They just think they do in some 1% way, like when they hear Scarlet Johansson broke up with her boyfriend, there's always the possibility that now they can date her because she's free. It's a pipe dream; as long as they believe in it they will keep fighting in Cyro.

It's the day they realize"Man, our side sucks. Our leaders suck. We can never beat PRX and get even the benefits of having an Emperor on our side. Fuck this.. where's the arena?"I mean at the end of the day, the only people who will be cheering that an emperor is crowned when it wasn't them are people in that guy's guild. Don't know too many people who go "Yay! Bronco's guild has the Emperor!", even if they get some kind of benefit.

When you have BGs as an option alongside an open-world battleground, it will suck out the losers a lot faster as they realize that. They'll think "I either can put 3 hours into a fail attempt to win all the keeps back or 3 hours with my premade dominating PUGs". That's what happened in Aion during the Abyss battles. Stronger side kept showing up to win, weaker side just went pre-mades. That may have had something to do with GW2's RvR going downhill.. people simply got tired of facesmashings and decided to go the other route, which only made the better teams even stronger over time.

I mean, even PRX got tiredof winningand switched from what I read.

So it seems like people are having a decent time. I admit I've ignored this game completely based on a couple beta weekends and other people talking about how bad it was. Questions: Does it seem like the game will be last longer then a month or 2 ala swtor? Is the PvP fun and rewarding?

Kedwyn_sl said:

Recent games have made it generally a pain in the balls to have alts. Mostly because of metered access at end game consisting of dailies tied to faction gain and scripted on rails progression through the entire game. So the second run through feels significantly more of a PIA than say on DAOC where if you had a full SC set you could plow through shit much less if you had a PL 50 that could PBAOE or Necro spam pull to max in a day with full auto train. Not too mention the developers didn't care if you tasked to max, ground mobs in some off the beaten path or did a million dungeon runs etc.

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Keeping up with alts has never been easy and I don't expect it to change anytime soon. The closest might be FF14 because you really only need one toon to get everything, but even that isn't easy to keep up with and requires some effort on your part. I will say that the easiest alt leveling experience has been SWTOR because at least the class stories are somewhat engaging (I have 9 level 55s and 2 more that are 50/51) but at max level the difficulty in keeping up still exists. People with limited playtimes might settle on one or two characters but more than that becomes something akin to repeatedly banging your head against a wall.

Skrigg_sl said:

I admit I've ignored this game completely based on a couple beta weekendsand other people talking about how bad it was.

Questions: Does it seem like the game will be last longer then a month or 2 ala swtor?

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Dumb-ass question considering TOR lasted longer than a "month or two". Last official count it had 500k paying subs along with 1.5 million freeloaders. Just because you quit playing doesn't mean half a million or more others still aren't and if 800k leave this game in 3 months, that doesn't mean 300k still won't be.

Never understand this type of gaming myopia people exhibit. "Everyone says it's dead, so it must be."

But yes, you have everyone's permission to go buy it. Even Ut's. It's fun now.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

Dumb-ass question considering TOR lasted longer than a "month or two". Last official count it had 500k paying subs along with 1.5 million freeloaders. Just because you quit playing doesn't mean half a million or more others still aren't and if 800k leave this game in 3 months, that doesn't mean 300k still won't be.

Never understand this type of gaming myopia people exhibit. "Everyone says it's dead, so it must be."

But yes, you have everyone's permission to go buy it. Even Ut's. It's fun now.

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Sorry i sprayed sand into your vagina, thanks for the reply though.

Skrigg_sl said:

So it seems like people are having a decent time. I admit I've ignored this game completely based on a couple beta weekends and other people talking about how bad it was. Questions: Does it seem like the game will be last longer then a month or 2 ala swtor? Is the PvP fun and rewarding?

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I quit most games after 1-2 months too, after trying most of the PvE, so if you play to exhaust that, I guessing around 1-2 months if you don't play hardcore. However, this game also has PvP as you mentioned, which is apparently fun from what I hear (still not tried it), and moreso in groups which is why I joined PRX to see what it is like from an organized perspective.

It is still the same game you tried in beta though. So if you didn't like it at all, not much/anything has changed.

EDIT: Well one change. Now there are tons of gold spammers, and due to the chat interface, you need to change your font to be able to see their name to block them (most spammers have just enough lines to make it so when you try to scroll up on the chat, it scrolls past the name, because the chat doesn't just scroll one line at the time, but skips pages at one point).

SpamFilter : Chat Mods : Elder Scrolls Online AddOns

should help.

Utnayan_sl said:

... Also, some serious UI response issues still exist. Activating quest objects (when they work) or doors, etc - sometimes require mashing of the E button still for no reason. (Without anyone nearby trying to activate the same object/door) this happens 30% very randomly...

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UT, you're making shit up again. It's only 29% of the time very randomly.