The Elder Scrolls Online

Yeah, glowyness isn't awesome, but gets the job done. Could be toned down for sure.

Qhue_sl said:

I am stunned by the sheer level of cock sucking that is going on from every gaming media site with respect to this game. They range from filling a piece with fluff about Elder Scrolls backstory to outright blazing lies about the game.

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I really wish we had a consumer reports for video games. I can't think of any major publication or game news sight that has any credibility.

i'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks that the red glow around the targeted mobs is gay as fuck. it got on my nerves just watching the demo. i couldn't imagine trying to play the game for a few hours with it.

I think this game will finally be the finishing blow that the MMO market needs so it can go into hibernation and be forgotten about. Only then can a proper MMORPG be created.

I think TOR was the big one though, that failure pretty much killed any future potential MMO's in planning, but this will represent the final blow. It will be glorious.

It's amazing how many of the larger guilds out there are getting excited or buying into the bullshit for this game. It's fun to watch.

Draegan_sl said:

It's amazing how many of the larger guilds out there are getting excited or buying into the bullshit for this game. It's fun to watch.

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Every new MMO this happens. Nothing new. Fucking MMOs are like crack, always trying to chase that first high.

I do wish I got my CCP White Wolf MMO though... The only MMO I looked forward to =(

No, this is all sorts of levels worse that "it happens with every new MMO". This is AOC levels bad (imo).

Illuziun_sl said:

I think this game will finally be the finishing blow that the MMO market needs so it can go into hibernation and be forgotten about. Only then can a proper MMORPG be created.

I think TOR was the big one though, that failure pretty much killed any future potential MMO's in planning, but this will represent the final blow. It will be glorious.

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If a one-two-three punch of SWTOR-38STUDIOS-TESO won't do it, then I'm afraid sadly this industry is permanently forked.

We going dungeon grind to max Draegan?
Lets get Xep and Pyros on the phone

If you ask me that in the Wildstar thread I'm down.

Illuziun_sl said:

I think this game will finally be the finishing blow that the MMO market needs so it can go into hibernation and be forgotten about. Only then can a proper MMORPG be created.

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Doubtful. 38S was turned down by all private investors, so it didn't really change anything except expose how expensive MMOs are. SWTOR just showed that a really good IP can easily make crazy money if you control costs, if they had launched for $100m or less in costs (vs the reported 240m+) it would have been crazy profitable. GW2 has made serious, serious bank for NCSoft, just read their last two quarter reports.

Unless it turns out TESO costs were way out of control ($150m+) its almost certain it will make a profit, figure 1m+ in sales and you are looking at nearly a return on investment within the first month or two. That is why you will continue to see shitty MMOs get developed, because there are 1-2m players out there who will pretty much buy anything that is considered a AAA MMO within the first 2 months of launch. Some MMOs consider themselves AAA while they aren't (The Secret World, Defiance) but things like SWTOR, GW2, TESO, whatever Blizzard puts out, Fallout IP, etc have a pretty much guaranteed first month sell rate.

The more interesting one is Defiance, a lot of money has been poured into that and if it crashes and burns on sales it could be enough to seriously harm Trion, one would think. Just like Funcom seriously misjudged how much bad-will AOC generated with the "buy it first" MMO crowd for TSW, their quarterly report before TSW launched suggested in the worst case TSW would do like AOC did at launch (700k copies in the first month), and in reality TSW did like 1/4th of that.

mkopec_sl said:

Well if you think about it, Rift didnt do so well either considering. I have a feeling that all these mmorpgs make money its just how much. Im even betting SWTOR has gotten their initial investment back as well.

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My understanding, and I could be utterly wrong, was that Rift was pretty cheap to make by MMORPG terms, about 20 million USD.

Rift was successful mainly because nobody had their heads up spending cash like they were all shitting gold. Had Bioware not gone nuts in cost with voice and other shit, ToR might have blown Rift out of the water in profitability.

mkopec_sl said:

Obviously I dont have the numbers, but I specifically remember that their retention rate was abysmal. And thats what I was specifically taking about. Money wise its pretty clear they are doing well. But I would caution you to say that it was the most successful since wow either. some of those F2P mmos are making bank, for one try LOTRO. just because something is F2P does not automatically mean fail in this market.

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They had around 30-40% retention rate after 3 months or so. That was pretty good. They were successful enough to launch a b2p expansion as well.

mkopec_sl said:

Obviously I dont have the numbers, but I specifically remember that their retention rate was abysmal. And thats what I was specifically taking about. Money wise its pretty clear they are doing well. But I would caution you to say that it was the most successful since wow either. some of those F2P mmos are making bank, for one try LOTRO. just because something is F2P does not automatically mean fail in this market.

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Most mmo's are successful from a business standpoint, even the crappy ones. That is why they keep churning them out. The new business model seems to expect the biggest profits to come from the first couple of months and then go into low cost maintenance mode, where they get small dividends long term from the core fans who stick around. The gaming companies then build another new mmo for a quick cash grab, and repeat the cycle, etc, etc. Very much like single player games.

SWTOR's (and 38Studios) failure to become the next WoW, with huge long term sub numbers, pretty much killed anyone else's chances for getting funding for that path. Any mmo that wants to get funded now has to have a business plan that makes makes most of their profits within the first couple months of release.

Grim1_sl said:

SWTOR's (and 38Studios) failure to become the next WoW with huge long term sub numbers pretty much killed anyone else from trying it.

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This is incorrect. There will always be people who will try to make the next best thing.

You commented as I was changing the sentence to indicate getting funding. People will try, but getting funded is a different matter.