The Elder Scrolls Online

Gecko_sl said:

I find it interesting you are saying NCSoft is a punishment as a parent company, when they seem to be the only publisher in town doing anything. Who's better and what other options are there?

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There are plenty of other publishers doing something. They are all just fucking it up as normal.

NcSoft is * Not * a good publisher to work under. Not only do they have little regard for developer practices from a games stand point, they force down cash shop imbalances to capitlize profit at the games integrity. Once that flows down, they slowly kill the game to be replaced with something else in it's continuous cycle of bullshit. Obviously their customer support/perception from paying customers is a tad misaligned as well. (Be prepared for a lot of nerd rage in that link.)

http://amplicate.com/hate/ncsoft

NCsoft is Korea, the idea of a western run NC is long gone

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May want to tell them that. You and I both know this, but it doesn't stop them from lying their ass off.

NCsoft West has been hit with layoffs this week. An NCsoft spokesperson confirmed to Massively today that the publisher has undergone another round of layoffs as part of its restructuring plan for"a greater focus on the success of the Western-developed games from NCSOFT, and the long-term services MMOs require."

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It's all a spin game with these morons.

Do not expect to see Wildstar doing anything fantastic for this genre. NcSoft marketing has just become more adept at taking normal MMORPG concepts and spinning them into (seemingly) something fresh when really it isn't anything new, and in most cases when compared to games from 2003 with open housing (SWG for instance) has more canned tool placement within than any freeform housing sandbox play before it. And I guarantee you 100% that NcSoft is forcing down what they want in that hybrid cash shop model Carbine is having to throw out.

Or, you can read this little tidbit on what happened with GW2's cash shop.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar...xon-Investment

Gavinrad_sl said:

After playing Dungeon Fighter Online, I can definitely say that I never want anything to do with Nexon ever again. Probably going to uninstall GW2.

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You are not going to want to play Wildstar either then. It's going to get about 5 times worse now that they own 15% of the company.

I have heard that Carbine is trying to fight this, but they are promptly being fucked.

Wildstar will be Pay to Win within 6 months to a year.

dechire_sl said:

Like I said its almost 100% up to them whether they sell a game or make a great game. If Wildstar sucks its because Carbine fucked up.

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The problem with this train of thought though is that just the same could have been said of ArenaNet. They got fucked with their design decisions when Nexon bought 15% of NcSoft and forced down a pay to win system in Guild Wars 2. It went against what ArenaNet wanted to do with the online store, and it also completely went against their design doc. They had no choice.

Essentially, the game has become a pay-to-win scheme. With an accessable stat-capped system that Arenanet originally promised, one could liesurely advance their characters to top-stat status and then liesurely play those characters to eventually acquire cosmetically variant skins; after a certain level, there was nothing one needed to "keep up with" in order to have a maxed-out character. IOW, with everyone eventually hitting the same cap, there was no "win" you could pay for, even if you bought boosters all the time.

After the introduction of the "item progression initiative", players will never (not for long, anyway) have a maxed-out character, so unless you invest enough time in-game to keep up, either by constantly grinding ascended [EDIT: Ascended materials] and infusions or by grinding gold to buy ever-increasing [materials for] ascended and infusions, your only option is to simply buy gold via gem purchases or off the black market.

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That wasn't ArenaNet. That was Nexon. So to say that after this example Carbine will have any say in what happens within their hybrid system they are announcing in a few weeks (They may have other PR to avoid the Pay to Win plans at first, but rest assured I know for a fact it will be in there within about 6 months of launch) Nexon clearly controls certain business aspects of any of NcSoft's subsidiaries. Be damned what the studio wants to do from a design perspective.

dechire_sl said:

@Utnayan That could be the case. I don't know as much about their GW2's cash shop or the direct Nexon connections. I personally find it difficult to believe that NC got Anet to do anything that they weren't somehow into doing but they are owned by Korea vs being owned by NCWest.

ps. sorry about the crappy sentence structure.

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It could be a one off high office / management decision to let it happen. Rumor has it from that article that the purchase of shares from Nexon was dependent on them having full control over the cash shop decisions in future games. Nexon doesn't care about integrity in these games. They are a free to play (Pay to win) shop in, I am fairly sure, everything they have ever released. Problem is they try to lie to that fact by saying they only offer cosmetics. But low and behold, they always ended up adding stats to those cosmetics to make them equal to or higher than items found in the game by normal means.

I think what needs to happen is before a company designs cash shops, they need to think of better gaming systems in the game itself that will intice people to spend money. And by that, taking away ridiculous items like flying mounts for $25.00. Adding .50-$1.00 transactional accessibility items. Not giving more powerful items to a player. Problem is with everything moving to a theme park status, it's fairly hard to get that right. Now imagine had EQ been free to play and you could charge .25-.50 cents for an instant travel button to a dungeon you wanted to play in without having to travel. Something along those lines. But now it would look like anyone trying to do that would be neutering features that come with any other theme park game out there.

Abefroman_sl said:

@Ut How is GW2 ptw?

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Maybe our definitions differ, but doesn't this sound like Pay to Win? Or do you look at it as a casual alternative to not having to play? (Serious question)

After the introduction of the "item progression initiative", players will never (not for long, anyway) have a maxed-out character, so unless you invest enough time in-game to keep up, either by constantly grinding ascended [EDIT: Ascended materials] and infusions or by grinding gold to buy ever-increasing [materials for] ascended and infusions, your only option is to simply buy gold via gem purchases or off the black market.

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Gavinrad_sl said:

Lo. Lo and behold.

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You missed my reference. (Admittedly, it was a hard one to get)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910917/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl

Grim1_sl said:

edit: The definition point is very relevant. For me P2W games mean you have to spend money to realistically get the gear with the best stats. That isn't true in GW2. You can take short cuts if you buy gems and convert them to gold though. To some people that is P2W. I don't have a problem with it myself. I don't feel the need to buy gems with cash. I do convert a lot of my gold to gems though. For bank slots etc.

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For me, that is exactly what pay to win is. Other than it has been really blasted out there in the mobile game arena.

Any time you can purchase or short cut to get items or levels faster by not playing the game using real world currency, it devalues the game and undermines the value of said items for those that obtain them "in the game" through normal designed means of completing content.

Obviously, our opinions differ. And that's ok too.

Edit: The only time I would ever be ok with it is if the items able to be purchased in an online store are of lesser value than those that can be obtained in the game. When they become of equal or greater value (No matter by how much) that's when it gets a little ridiculous and devalues the point of playing in the first place.

Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl said:

I just got terrible medical news 8 days ago.
I am looking for beta invite while, I go thru treatments and surgery to try to get my mind of this Illness.
So if anyone has beta invite for this or even Teso it would mean a lot to me.

One last thing, This is not troll post or some lame attempt to get in beta, its the truth.
I am not even sure that will like either game, but at this point anything would help to get me to relax and not worry about dying.

Cheers.

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Sorry to hear man.