The Elder Scrolls Online

khalid

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I'm not really understanding the universal hate. It feels like a multiplayer Skryim to me, the graphics look very close to the unmodded release. The UI is very similar also.

I am not impressed with it either. However, worst MMO? Not following where that sentiment is coming from.
 

Sylas

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Game definitely needs lots of polish but for what it is, multiplayer Elder scrolls, it's quite good. some systems are quite interesting in how they are implemented. tons and tons of stuff is client side for one, and interesting in how they utilize instancing.

There's parallel's here to SW:TOR, lessons learned, though not necessarily for the better. in TOR you could see the single player bioware game underneath but they wanted to make it MMO, so they made it like WoW. This is an elder scrolls game, they wanted to make in an MMO but they didn't want it to end up like TOR so they didn't make it like WoW. It's ES through and through.
 

Recalcitrant_sl

shitlord
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Did you play Skyrim on a console? I can see graphics being more equitable that way. Maybe a lot of us were spoiled by playing around with FFXIV ARR's beta- night and day difference in graphics. There's a reason people are comparing it to AoC and Vanguard. It could always depend on starting areas- some could get more love. Or maybe the animations/player models/off-center third person are just so bad it ruins everything.

I've been in a lot of MMO betas and this is by far the worst I've seen for combat. And if your combat isn't good on any level (animations, sync, fluidity), what's the point of having a combat-oriented game? I guess to run around not killing anything since that's what 90% of my time was spent doing. But it even failed there because of the TTS voice "acting" which immediately made me skip through all text quest. I have no idea what my character did so far. And I spent well over 100 hours in Skyrim doing side-stuff before the DLCs came out- I enjoy that kind of stuff.

Separate gripe: does the character customization even work? I ask because I made my character bald, like I do in every game I've played since my erudite in EQ1. Yet today when I logged back in he had full shoulder-length hair. Maybe it had something to do with spamming the "create" button that did nothing about 50 times before it kicked me to login (then logging back in my character was created).
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Separate gripe: does the character customization even work? I ask because I made my character bald, like I do in every game I've played since my erudite in EQ1. Yet today when I logged back in he had full shoulder-length hair. Maybe it had something to do with spamming the "create" button that did nothing about 50 times before it kicked me to login (then logging back in my character was created).
Maybe the hair grew overnight?
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
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I had a character I made last night have extra features from when I created it during all the spamming. However, my character made after that looks like I made it.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Game definitely needs lots of polish but for what it is, multiplayer Elder scrolls, it's quite good. some systems are quite interesting in how they are implemented. tons and tons of stuff is client side for one, and interesting in how they utilize instancing.

There's parallel's here to SW:TOR, lessons learned, though not necessarily for the better. in TOR you could see the single player bioware game underneath but they wanted to make it MMO, so they made it like WoW. This is an elder scrolls game, they wanted to make in an MMO but they didn't want it to end up like TOR so they didn't make it like WoW. It's ES through and through.
Exactly what systems do you find interesting and just how exactly is the instancing utilization interesting?
 

ZProtoss

Bronze Knight of the Realm
395
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I'm not really understanding the universal hate. It feels like a multiplayer Skryim to me, the graphics look very close to the unmodded release. The UI is very similar also.

I am not impressed with it either. However, worst MMO? Not following where that sentiment is coming from.
Because it's the worst MMO that's been released in recent memory. Seriously. Name an MMO that doesn't drastically outshine this piece of shit? Even SWTOR looks like a shining crystal gem compared to this game. Why the fuck would anyone play this game over the multitude of games available that are straight up better?
 

khalid

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Whats the deal with xp in this game? Quests seem to give pretty much fuckall. Are you expected to grind or am I just not finding enough quests?
 

Erronius

<WoW Guild Officer>
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Why the fuck would anyone play this game over the multitude of games available that are straight up better?
  1. You're a TES fanboy
  2. Masochism
  3. You're getting paid by ZO
  4. You're too stubborn to admit how bad it really is after championing it against Utnayan et al for 8 months straight
  5. You think that they can fix everything by April and show Vanguard how you are supposed to actually turn things around
  6. You believe in leprechauns, unicorns and miracle patches.
 

khalid

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Why the fuck would anyone play this game over the multitude of games available that are straight up better?
Which are straight up better?

WoW sure. GW2 was alot of fun, but they had zero support for pvp and no endgame outside of 5mans. Also they had no progression whatsoever. Outside of those two, I see nothing but shit. TSW is utter crap, FF is utter crap. Tera had great combat but no endgame whatsoever and nothing but pointless world solo pvp.

I just don't see what people were expecting. This shit is multiplayer skyrim, which is what they advertised basically. The combat sucked in Skryim, it was the world that people liked, and this world feels pretty much the same to me. I also like this combat more than Skryim, though that isn't saying much really. What this will come down to is if the pvp is fun and if they support it.

A HUGE advantage this game will have over any of those current competitors outside of WoW is it will have ui mods.
 

ZProtoss

Bronze Knight of the Realm
395
15
Which are straight up better?

WoW sure. GW2 was alot of fun, but they had zero support for pvp and no endgame outside of 5mans. Also they had no progression whatsoever. Outside of those two, I see nothing but shit. TSW is utter crap, FF is utter crap. Tera had great combat but no endgame whatsoever and nothing but pointless world solo pvp.

I just don't see what people were expecting. This shit is multiplayer skyrim, which is what they advertised basically. The combat sucked in Skryim, it was the world that people liked, and this world feels pretty much the same to me. I also like this combat more than Skryim, though that isn't saying much really. What this will come down to is if the pvp is fun and if they support it.

A HUGE advantage this game will have over any of those current competitors outside of WoW is it will have ui mods.
TSW had far, far more going for it (and still does) than TESO is ever going to achieve. Both in terms of content and overall polish of the game. FFXIV by the accounts of most people on this forum (and myself) was fuckingawesomefor the first month and a half to two months until content ran dry, and it's overall level of content/polish far exceed what TESO will ever reach. GW2 had its flaws, but again it had far more content and far more things to do than TESO will ever have.

All of the games you listed are dramatically better than TESO. Care to try again?
 

ZProtoss

Bronze Knight of the Realm
395
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Not saying a game is the worst ever is hardly fanboying it.
It's objectively worse than every standard MMO release in recent history. You have to go to hybrid shooter games like Firefall to find a game that fails in more categories than TESO.
 
Unless they will have UI mods that change how combat works and feels along with a host of other things I dont see what that will change. Its one thing to pay a box fee and play a single player game at your leisure offline that has these issues but when your paying monthly and dealing with a online game with grouping that you invest time and money in its really unacceptable.
 

khalid

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Unless they will have UI mods that change how combat works and feels
Well, that is the problem with basing a MMO around Skryim. You are going to get abunch of ES fans who want the combat to feel like ES combat even though ES combat has always been at best mediocre.

Is it necessary to grind to keep up with quest levels in this game? Seems all the quests are growing in level and my progress is slow as shit.
 

Sylas

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Exactly what systems do you find interesting and just how exactly is the instancing utilization interesting?
The passage of time and events/character impact on the story/gameworld that is handled via instancing. this combined with NPC draw and placement being handled client side rather than server makes for a more interesting story telling experience than say, SW:TOR, which again, is the other major single player game-made-into-an-mmo that i draw comparisons to.

an example:
bad guys are planning invasion of a town. they are attacking it and burning everything down. Through a series of events you save the day and restore peace, and everyone is saved.

Since the advent of WoW and story/quest based xp progression this generic quest chain plays out in many mmos. since the advent of instances certain segments of this quest chain would play out in (mostly) solo instances. It gives the feel of progression and character impact on the story. The problem when you're heading back to the ? quest giver to get your xp and reward you pass through the same area and watch all the other players dealing with the same mobs from the same bad guys that you just eradicated. It's like a ground hogs day scenario.

Games have tried to alleviate this by having most of the major plot point moments occur in single player "dungeon" instances where major story NPCs can be killed/saved/etc without impacting other players experience (since they are playing the same story quests you are), but the "zone" is the "zone", a common area that all players have access to thus the bad guy army is kinda stuck always spawning in that area always on the "eve of their attack", and the allusion is shattered, your actions have had zero "impact" on the world.

ES heavily utilizes both instancing and client side NPC draw/placement to alleviate this. When I'm throwing water to put out a house fire, busting in and saving all the villagers trapped inside it's happening client side. I'm still interacting with players in a "common zone" area, we can team up to attack the bad guys, i can run in and save him or just tea bag his corpse when he dies, it's still multiplayer, but it's still ES too. My progression through the story, the objects and npcs that i'm interacting with, etc, doesn't hinder him or his progression through the story either. When I reach a major plot point/junction in the story, instead of going off into a single player instance to deal with X only to come back out of said instance into same common area that's still dealing with the threat I just vanquished, I instead move to a new "common instance" in which that threat has been dealt with. The town was saved, the fire's are out. NPCs are in different locations, they have different dialogue. Time has passed, actions have had consequences. Later on in the game when I go back, I don't see players dealing with the same problem I already solved yesterday. I return to a grateful town that was saved by me. NPCs cheer for me when I enter.

LOTR was the first game to use instancing in this way but it was minor transition in a newbie area once (town burned down, when you went back the town was still burned down) and I don't think they utilized it a lot, though i only played that game for a month when it released so I dunno.

The game is still in beta, so yeah there's bugs, half the voice overs are missing still so you get generic TTS on a lot of quests, etc. But the game is getting a lot of hate because people are expecting ES version of WoW much like TOR was a Bioware version of WoW. it isn't trying to be WoW at all. It's trying to be multiplayer ES, which it's doing quite well, incompleteness and bugs aside.

"you run around and press "E" a lot". yeah, ok so basically what you did in skyrim? They aren't starting with a baseline of WoW and adding an ES theme on top of it which is what SW:TOR was. It's starting out as ES and then trying to tackle the problems they see with converting a single player experience in which the player is this prophesized savior/hero/whatever and how to handle converting that into a multiplayer experience. Whereas TOR did it all through single player story instances they've went another direction, and yeah I happen to find it interesting.

None of that is to say that I think this game is the best or worst game ever, or any of that. I just find how they handled the "you are the hero of legend" story based RPG which ES is known for, and converting that into an MMO in which everyone and their dog is "also the hero of legend". Bioware faced a similiar dilemma with TOR and I wasn't a fan in their methods of maintaining the allusion. The game as a game has its gripes and merits, Graphics are fine-ish (FAR superior to FFIX btw, though that's more taste/style I suppose, always hate FF/anime style graphics), controls are just as janky as FFIX (of which i wasn't a fan of). base combat/gameplay is kinda weak, though it's definitely got the ES feel, and ES is certainly not known for it's amazing combat.