The Final Fantasy Mega Thread - Now playing FFXV

Needless said:

I mean yeah there was a lot of technology in the old games, but i'm more talking about how silly it got with stupid shit like this:

Hell yeah, lets turn shiva into a lesbian scissoring motorbike!

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Yeah this is the type of bullshit I'm talking about.

Shiva is suppose ta be sexy hot nude blue lady raining ice death on your enemies - wth is that

My guess is that the popularity of Kingdom Hearts 3 will do more to propel the future design decisions of Final Fantasy than anything else. It's a sad time.

I still blame FF8 for 90% of this lame nonsense. That god damn game created this weird splinter cult of weeby FF fans who have cheered on the worst aspects of the franchise to this day.

Lodi said:

I still blame FF8 for 90% of this lame nonsense. That god damn game created this weird splinter cult of weeby FF fans who have cheered on the worst aspects of the franchise to this day.

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Also nothing to do with the fall of the series.

FF12 - 15 all sucked because they were not finished, internal politics and wasteful redesigns being responsible for that.

Chris said:

Also nothing to do with the fall of the series.

FF12 - 15 all sucked because they were not finished, internal politics and wasteful redesigns being responsible for that.

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I disagree on that having nothing to do with the fall of the series. Half-baked game design and shitty artistic decisions are a huge part of why Final Fantasy has taken a turn for the worst. That started with FF8. Though, I don't disagree that all of the things you mentioned in FF12-15 aren't huge problems too.

I think the real problem is that Square isn't Square anymore. In the same way that Blizz, Bioware, Bethesda, etc aren't the same anymore. We keep wanting the older iterations of our IPs back, but a lot of the people who made them just aren't there anymore.

You would think by now we'd have a few faces that could offer us something to be excited about, but I just don't see it. I think this is largely because I've aged out of all of this stuff, however.

Lodi said:

I disagree on that having nothing to do with the fall of the series. Half-baked game design and shitty artistic decisions are a huge part of why Final Fantasy has taken a turn for the worst. That started with FF8. Though, I don't disagree that all of the things you mentioned in FF12-15 aren't huge problems too.

I think the real problem is that Square isn't Square anymore. In the same way that Blizz, Bioware, Bethesda, etc aren't the same anymore. We keep wanting the older iterations of our IPs back, but a lot of the people who made them just aren't there anymore.

You would think by now we'd have a few faces that could offer us something to be excited about, but I just don't see it. I think this is largely because I've aged out of all of this stuff, however.

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FF8 was great. Replay it without using draw more than once per monster.

Chris said:

FF8 was great. Replay it without using draw more than once per monster.

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Ugh...I know there is a certain subset of FF fans that loves 8 for whatever reason (many times it was their first FF). I'm not sure I'd say 8 alone started the downfall of the series, though. Even with 6 they started throwing in more steampunk elements going away from strictly traditional swords and sorcery settings. Obviously with 7 and 8, they tried innovating quite a bit. For most people, 7 was a hit, while at the same time 8 was not. 9 Obviously was the throwback, but everything from 10 on has also been them trying to innovate with varying degrees of success.

I think Chris is selling 12 short though, yeah it sorta lost the plot part of the way through, but it was still a good game. Much better than 8 was, imo. It wasn't just the draw shit, GF's, game often being easier if you didn't gain levels, shitty amnesia bs midway through the story...card game was great, at least. I can see it being more able to be liked than a 13, but man so much of that game was such a letdown after 6 and 7.

Chris said:

FF8 was great. Replay it without using draw more than once per monster.

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Negative Ghost Rider. That game was and is utter shit. But you probably still have GFs junctioned so I can understand how you forgot.

Merrith said:

Ugh...I know there is a certain subset of FF fans that loves 8 for whatever reason (many times it was their first FF). I'm not sure I'd say 8 alone started the downfall of the series, though. Even with 6 they started throwing in more steampunk elements going away from strictly traditional swords and sorcery settings. Obviously with 7 and 8, they tried innovating quite a bit. For most people, 7 was a hit, while at the same time 8 was not. 9 Obviously was the throwback, but everything from 10 on has also been them trying to innovate with varying degrees of success.

I think Chris is selling 12 short though, yeah it sorta lost the plot part of the way through, but it was still a good game. Much better than 8 was, imo. It wasn't just the draw shit, GF's, game often being easier if you didn't gain levels, shitty amnesia bs midway through the story...card game was great, at least. I can see it being more able to be liked than a 13, but man so much of that game was such a letdown after 6 and 7.

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I'm replaying 12 and it's amazing how much it lacks compared to the other games in every category. The scenario is just boring in FF12:

Main character dies to an evil twin, start again with his gayer younger brother.
Walk around Dalmasca talking to people.
Go to Royal Palace for a gem.
Escape from prison through some mines.
Go to a Raithwall's Tomb for a gem.
Escape from prison again, accidentally blowing up a star wars fleet.
Go into some more mines.
Go into even more mines.
Walk to Bur Omis to talk to pope.
Go to Stillshrine for a sword.
Walk to Archedaes to talk to Cid.
Go to Giruvegen for another sword.
Go to 100 floor dungeon to destroy everything.
Kill Vayne.

In FF8 you have:
Timed mission to obtain Ifrit.
Dollet invasion.
Steal a train to assassinate the president.
Laguna flashbacks.
Infiltrate the capital city to assassinate evil sorceress.
Escape from prison.
Branching paths to stop cruise missiles destroying your base / make your base move out of their path.
Battle of the Gardens
Orphanage plot twist.
Go to futuristic city.
GO TO SPACE to see stasis tomb of another evil sorceress, MOON EXPLODES, get lost and KILL ALIENS to reclaim a spaceship to get home on.
Lunatic Pandora.
Time Compression, TIME TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE to kill final evil sorceress.

Chris said:

I'm replaying 12 and it's amazing how much it lacks compared to the other games in every category. The scenario is just boring in FF12:

Main character dies to an evil twin, start again with his gayer younger brother.
Walk around Dalmasca talking to people.
Go to Royal Palace for a gem.
Escape from prison through some mines.
Go to a Raithwall's Tomb for a gem.
Escape from prison again, accidentally blowing up a star wars fleet.
Go into some more mines.
Go into even more mines.
Walk to Bur Omis to talk to pope.
Go to Stillshrine for a sword.
Walk to Archedaes to talk to Cid.
Go to Giruvegen for another sword.
Go to 100 floor dungeon to destroy everything.
Kill Vayne.

In FF8 you have:
Timed mission to obtain Ifrit.
Dollet invasion.
Steal a train to assassinate the president.
Laguna flashbacks.
Infiltrate the capital city to assassinate evil sorceress.
Escape from prison.
Branching paths to stop cruise missiles destroying your base / make your base move out of their path.
Battle of the Gardens
Orphanage plot twist.
Go to futuristic city.
GO TO SPACE to see stasis tomb of another evil sorceress, MOON EXPLODES, get lost and KILL ALIENS to reclaim a spaceship to get home on.
Lunatic Pandora.
Time Compression, TIME TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE to kill final evil sorceress.

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When you boil games down to just single line references to plot points...they all sound boring as fuck (both in this case).

gshurik said:

I'd say that every FF tries to innovate on the formula, with a few throwbacks here and there.

FF1 - The base
FF2 - Radical new level up system, and story emphasis
FF3 - Radical new job system
FF4 - Huge story emphasis, set story based jobs and temporary party members
FF5 - Marry FF3's system and FF4's story emphasis
FF6 - Huge cast of permanent party members and choice based gameplay
FF7 - Radical new level up system, and only 3 party members.
FF8 - Radical new level up system and emphasis on skill based combat with trigger pulls
FF9 - The throwback
FF10 - True turn based, character switching and radical new level up system
FF12 - In depth strategy for AI based companions, focusing on macro vs micro gameplay
FF13 - Entirely new type of battle system focusing on micro decisions
FF15 - Open world, real time combat

I don't think FF6 - FF9 was as big of a leap as FF1 - FF5 was.

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I can agree with it in general. Obviously FF1 was bare bones, and if you know the story, it was basically their last chance at having a hit game. I've never actually played 2 or 3, so I don't know how much innovations were in those games total. 3 and 5 clearly went for the big job system setups. Through 6 though you mostly had the generic swords and sorcery setting. Also the big emphasis on side content/extras which they definitely carried through 10 and beyond, even. As you note, they've danced back and forth with the "set jobs" v. "everyone can be customizable" theories, as well. Stuff like 6 you had set skills for characters, but based on esper learning and relics you could do some customization. Materia system in 7 so underrated in that you can be very simple with it to customize character roles, or make insane fun/complex combos.

I include 6 in the 7-10 era in that it was huge focus on the story narrative, and it did the absolute max you could with a 16 bit console. 7-10 saw the direction go towards cinematic storytelling, in varying degrees. Just felt like post 5, they were trying to put together various complex systems for combat while at the same time delivering this big story told through cutscenes. Some of these worked more than others. Some of them seemed to lose a bit of the essential quality of what a FF game was. That's why I think 15 is very divisive about whether it was a good FF game. Some people hate it (although sometimes for the obvious reasons of it being unfinished and rushed to completion), others think it's a solid entry although not near the very top.

Merrith said:

When you boil games down to just single line references to plot points...they all sound boring as fuck (both in this case).

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Then you would be wrong.

One list has you walking to places, the other has you doing varied missions.

Chris said:

Then you would be wrong.

One list has you walking to places, the other has you doing varied missions.

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Oh I recognized the vocab and capitalization change to try and make the 8 stuff seem more interesting. "walking places" was usually going on missions in 12, as well.

Merrith said:

Oh I recognized the vocab and capitalization change to try and make the 8 stuff seem more interesting. "walking places" was usually going on missions in 12, as well.

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Go ahead and use your own language and capital letters to make FF12 sound exciting.

Going to a space station and doing a spacewalk to save your possessed love interest who is releasing an evil androgynous sorceress, getting flung into space by the moon cumming monsters onto the earth, then finding an alien filled derelict spacecraft to fuck her on then pledging your undying love for her is probably the most exciting thing ever put in a Final Fantasy game.

Chris said:

Go ahead and use your own language and capital letters to make FF12 sound exciting.

Going to a space station and doing a spacewalk to save your possessed love interest who is releasing an evil androgynous sorceress, getting flung into space by the moon cumming monsters onto the earth, then finding an alien filled derelict spacecraft to fuck her on then pledging your undying love for her is probably the most exciting thing ever put in a Final Fantasy game.

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Yeah it sounds pretty silly. Having played through the game, it was actually worse with the characters involved. But again, most of this stuff will just come down to personal taste. 8 was a dud for me. Gameplay and story. That love story never worked for me nearly as much. Even with the absolute shit voice acting I preferred Tidus and Yuna over Squall and Rinoa.

Merrith said:

Yeah it sounds pretty silly. Having played through the game, it was actually worse with the characters involved. But again, most of this stuff will just come down to personal taste. 8 was a dud for me. Gameplay and story. That love story never worked for me nearly as much. Even with the absolute shit voice acting I preferred Tidus and Yuna over Squall and Rinoa.

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As silly as it may sound, you are sitting down to be entertained. I wouldn't be buying Japanese products if it didn't have stupid over the top anime shit in it, just because it's something different.

FF12 has nothing going on other than the translators having read Game of Thrones.

Tidus and Yuna is the pinnacle of Final Fantasy romances. I even like the voice acting, ha ha ha.