The Hobbit

Chukzombi · Jan 6, 2014

sumdain x_sl said:
the 3 rings that elrond, galadrial and gandalf have are not under the one rings control, When melkor/morgoth assisted celebrimbor with crafting the rings the 3 rings (narya, ninya, and vinya) were made separately without any corruption.

the elven rings were not touched by sauron but it doesnt mean that they were of their own power

Sumdain x · Jan 6, 2014

quote from the article linked.

Nenya, Narya and Vilya; the only three of the Rings of Power to be made wholly outside the influence of Sauron. Their power maintained the realms of the Elves in Middle-earth until the destruction of the Ruling Ring.

so i guess they got their power from the one ring but were not influenced in any way. Makes sense.

Caliane · Jan 6, 2014

Most of the older elves already sailed west.
And no, Elrond and Galadriel were strong on their own. the rings were just icing on the cake.

Grimey · Jan 7, 2014

I think the implication was that Elves who went to Valinor were stronger than others. Hence why the Noldor almost single handedly laid seige to Morgoth. As time went on, the sweet Valinor juices wore off and those elves moved out of Middle Earth so the overall power level went down.

Siddar · Jan 7, 2014

After Melkor was defeated the Valinor called the elves to live with them in the Undying lands. Those that went West to the Undying lands became even more powerful. Those that stayed behind in middle earth slowly lost power because of the evil races that Melkor had created in the in middle earth. It seems the elves power in middle earth is linked to the purity of the land and once middle earth was contaminated by evil the elves started to diminish.

Caliane · Jan 7, 2014

oh, and it should be noted, that if the Dwarfs, and Elves had actually fought, Sauron wouldn't have stood a chance. The WW2 allegory of course. The only reason he was a threat, is no one was fighting back.
Dwarves turtled up and shut everyone out. Elves said, "fuck it, we don't care, we are leaving anyway. he can have Middle earth." Other cities and nations of men, also said, "hes your problem, he won't reach us."

Aaron · Jan 7, 2014

Just watched this. Good flick all round, though I have to wonder why the fuck Jackson wanted to make the Hobbit into 3 movies when 2 would have been enough. It does seem that he overestimated it a few times as some scenes seemed drawn out (though others do seem a bit cut).

I'm not too happy with Bj?rn the Bear's scene. I loved the book's version where the dwarfs are introduced bit by bit. Also, I never got the impression that Bj?rn in bear form was erratic in the book.

The spider scene was (fortunately) shorter than I excepted it to be. It was probably very good, but I kept my eyes closed due to my severe arachnophobia.

The elves and Laketown were OK, though the orc invasion seemed a bit odd.

The Lonely Mountain and Smaug were excellent, though I have no idea wtf all that running around doing gimmicky stuff was for. And the whole golden statue thing was WTF?

But, all round it was quite good, and in my opinion PJ is the only guy who could actually pull off a decent film version of Tolkien's books. The only thing that does piss me off is how Radagast is represented, as some goofy shat-out bum. I honestly never got that impression from the books. I always pictured him as a somber, intelligent figure (similar personality to Gandalf and Saruman (before he went mad)) though more of a hermit than the other two. Maybe slightly graver and more serious. Am I the only one who got that impression from the books?

Araysar · Jan 7, 2014

aaron_sl said:
Good flick all round, though I have to wonder why the fuck Jackson wanted to make the Hobbit into 3 movies when 2 would have been enough.

Does anyone seriously wonder this?

$$$$

When you already have all the actors, the location, the gear, the permits, the financing set up for 2 movies - whats another extra 2-3 hours of footage to jam in and make another billion bucks off?

McCheese · Jan 7, 2014

aaron_sl said:
But, all round it was quite good, and in my opinion PJ is the only guy who could actually pull off a decent film version of Tolkien's books. The only thing that does piss me off is how Radagast is represented, as some goofy shat-out bum. I honestly never got that impression from the books. I always pictured him as a somber, intelligent figure (similar personality to Gandalf and Saruman (before he went mad)) though more of a hermit than the other two. Maybe slightly graver and more serious. Am I the only one who got that impression from the books?

I 100% agree about Radagast and it was one of my biggest disappointments about the first film. I had him pictured similar to how you did. I think LOTRO colored my view of him, though, as he was presented much the way you described:

j00t · Jan 7, 2014

aaron_sl said:
The only thing that does piss me off is how Radagast is represented, as some goofy shat-out bum. I honestly never got that impression from the books. I always pictured him as a somber, intelligent figure (similar personality to Gandalf and Saruman (before he went mad)) though more of a hermit than the other two. Maybe slightly graver and more serious. Am I the only one who got that impression from the books?

Oddly enough, the movie representation was more or less how I pictured radaghast. The line from the first movie by sarumon about radaghast's brain being addled by mushrooms was lifted straight from the book.

Asmadai · Jan 7, 2014

Cad_sl said:
How is that possible when many of the elves from the first age are still alive in the third, and don't appear particularly distinctive from the rest? A lot of the "elf magic" is referred to but never really observed or described. Galadriel is probably the most powerful elf in the series, wouldn't you say? Is she also the oldest?

Well, Galadriel is as powerful as she is primarily because she (and to my knowledge quite possibly one of the only ones left in Middle-earth at the time of The Hobbit/LOTR) who was actually born on Valinor, rather than Middle-earth. She was born prior to the First Age even starting, and has actually seen the light of the Two Trees, which pretty much for lack of a better term makes her a walking bad ass (you should see a good example of this, and elven magic in the next Hobbit movie). Elrond, though also born in the First Age, was in actuality half-elven (Galadriel is his mother-in-law, tee hee), so he's not even in the same class as Galadriel, even if he does have some bad ass moments.

There really aren't THAT many Elves alive from the First Age, and the ones you are probably thinking of are all Avari or one of the sects of Teleri Elves that never made the Great Journey to Aman. The elves were of mind to either fight against Sauron, not give a shit about Sauron, or were of the belief that it was pointless to even resist Sauron as evil would win in the end, but honestly by the Third Age (as one can tell) most of the Elves were fading away and going to the Undying Lands rather than fight against Sauron.

Aaron · Jan 7, 2014

Hmmm.. I always took it as Saruman was just slandering Radagast since he preferred the company plants and animals to men and elves, and of studying nature instead of books and tomes. But I can see your point, though I do honestly think PJ took it a bit too far, at least with the fucking birdshit!

Chris · Jan 8, 2014

sumdain x_sl said:
the 3 rings that elrond, galadrial and gandalf have are not under the one rings control, When melkor/morgoth assisted celebrimbor with crafting the rings the 3 rings (narya, ninya, and vinya) were made separately without any corruption.

NO. YOU FOOL.

Sauron helped Celebrimbor craft the rings, Melkor is still in SPACE.

Even though he didn't help to make them, Sauron can still mind control the wearers of the Elf rings if he has The One. That's kind of the whole point of it.

chaos · Jan 8, 2014

Chris_sl said:
NO. YOU FOOL.

Sauron helped Celebrimbor craft the rings, Melkor is still in SPACE.

Even though he didn't help to make them, Sauron can still mind control the wearers of the Elf rings if he has The One. That's kind of the whole point of it.

Um...., no, not at all. Straight copypasta from Wikipedia:

he Three Rings were created by Celebrimbor after Sauron, in the guise of Annatar, had left Eregion. These Rings of Power were free of Sauron's influence, as he did not have a hand in their making; however they were still forged by Celebrimbor with the arts taught to him by Sauron and thus were still bound to the One Ring. Upon perceiving Sauron's intent, the Elves hid the three from him. They were carried out of Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age, after the destruction of the One Ring.

The whole point of the 3 is that they stand against the 1. Sauron has no power over them, in fact it is exactly the opposite.

Chris · Jan 8, 2014

Pretty sure there are lines referencing the three only being used in secret and Sauron with The One being able to undo all of their works. What exactly was the danger in Sauron getting his ring back?

Quaid · Jan 8, 2014

Chris_sl said:
Pretty sure there are lines referencing the three only being used in secret and Sauron with The One being able to undo all of their works. What exactly was the danger in Sauron getting his ring back?

He couldn't take physical form without it, no?

chaos · Jan 8, 2014

He was severely diminished in power without his ring, he put a lot of himself into it when forging it so that he could use it to control the other rings. His plan was (probably) to do the same thing to the elves that he did to men and the dwarves but they didn't fall for that shit. So his ring had no power over theirs. They were still connected, somehow. But it was not the same relationship as with the 9 or 7. The 3 were used in secret to avoid them coming into Sauron's possession, because no one wants to give that guy shit because he is a huge dick.

Asmadai · Jan 8, 2014

Sauron had no power over the Three Elvish Rings. He'd still have beat their asses had he ever encountered them in battle, but as far as influencing them as he did the Nine or the Seven Dwarf Rings, no, he could not do that.

Take Lothlorien for example - it was nigh impossible to even go in there if you were evil due to the power of the Ring Galadriel held. Hell, Sauron without the One Ring probably couldn't even have made it in there - however, if he DID have the One Ring, he could march straight through there and lay waste to all of the elves.

In short, the Elven Rings were a threat to Sauron as long as he did not hold the One Ring. If he got the One Ring back, whether or not he had a hand in the creation of the Elven Rings would no longer matter.

Chris · Jan 8, 2014

One Ring to rule them all. Except the Elf rings. Oops poem ruined.

Cad · Jan 8, 2014

Asmadai_sl said:
Sauron had no power over the Three Elvish Rings. He'd still have beat their asses had he ever encountered them in battle, but as far as influencing them as he did the Nine or the Seven Dwarf Rings, no, he could not do that.

Take Lothlorien for example - it was nigh impossible to even go in there if you were evil due to the power of the Ring Galadriel held. Hell, Sauron without the One Ring probably couldn't even have made it in there - however, if he DID have the One Ring, he could march straight through there and lay waste to all of the elves.

In short, the Elven Rings were a threat to Sauron as long as he did not hold the One Ring. If he got the One Ring back, whether or not he had a hand in the creation of the Elven Rings would no longer matter.

The LOTR wiki disagrees with you guys regarding the One's power over the Three:

Vilya - Lord of the Rings Wiki

Rings of Power - Lord of the Rings Wiki

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