The Last of Us

Szlia said:

Only in these parts can one call dictator a democratically elected president that got removed from office by a coup and replaced by a military junta for almost 2 decades (during which thousands of political opponents went "missing" - people still to this day are combing the Atacama desert looking for the remains of relatives). Even his political opponents in the '70s did not call Salvador Allende a dictator. Hell! Not even Kissinger and the CIA, who were instrumental in his demise, were calling him a dictator.

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Salvador Allende was a Pro Castro Lenninist politician, hardly a standard bearer for democracy and human rights.

Socialism and Big Government are the gods that failed in the 20th century, no ideology has been responsable for so many crimes and murders.

Considering the ammount of people murdered by their governments in the 20th century its amazing how people are so willing to trust their governments with bigger powers in the 21th century…..

Allende was overthrown by a military coup in 1973, thus probably forestalling the usual catalog of nation-wrecking Leninist horrors — slave-labor camps, famines, etc. — the international Left was outraged. Pinochet while often brutal and corrupt in the way of military dictatorships, restored Chile’s economic health and eventually stepped aside to let the nation return to democracy.

It must be remembered that Pinochet was one of the few dictators in history to quit the job while the going was good.

He voluntarily gave up his powers and restored democracy, something no dictator had done since Lucius Cornellius Sulla retired in 78 BC.

We should all be in favor of allowing Dictators to retire unmolested and allowing them to happily live out their days like Plutarch tells us Sulla did “ consorting with actresses, harpists, and theatrical people, drinking with them on couches all day long."

Socialist Dictators lacking a classical education and knowledge of history just keep on murdering till they get a bullet or die of old age.

Ravishing said:

By the end of #1 I was not rooting for Joel anymore and it's clear they intend to kill him off.
He just executed so many people to selfishly save one girl that could potentially save humanity.
I get it that we're supposed to root for these main characters, but he just kills off like 30 people, so why am I supposed to sympathize?
In terms of actor pedigree, yes it will suck to lose Pedro, but whatever... if the show dies then so be it.

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Guessing you're not a parent

Marlene was willing to sacrifice Ellie for the chance of a cure. Just a chance, no guarantees.

Joel didn’t want to lose another child. For him, it was like a chance to redo the events that led to Sarah’s death. He’s had that shit bottled up for decades and now stares in the face of forces that threaten to kill “his” kid again.

Also, like was posted, your reaction to what Joel did is going to hinge a lot with whether you identify with a parent protecting their kid. Which is in part why many people had trouble connecting with the 2nd game I think

Ravishing said:

He executes Marlene, who supposedly raised Ellie, yet we're supposed to be rooting for Joel.

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Because... just as Joel said, she would keep coming after Ellie. Why is this a bad thing, if you're trying to prevent the death of the kid?

It's not even about being a parent, I just think your logic is very off in your responses.

I mean... are you trying to say he was innocent up until he killed the fireflies in the last episode?

I don't think anyone would suggest he's never done anything bad or wrong. Protecting Ellie is his attempt at redemption.

Cybsled said:

Marlene was willing to sacrifice Ellie for the chance of a cure. Just a chance, no guarantees.

Joel didn’t want to lose another child. For him, it was like a chance to redo the events that led to Sarah’s death. He’s had that shit bottled up for decades and now stares in the face of forces that threaten to kill “his” kid again.

Also, like was posted, your reaction to what Joel did is going to hinge a lot with whether you identify with a parent protecting their kid. Which is in part why many people had trouble connecting with the 2nd game I think

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This is the correct take, any parent would have roasted the entire team of docs with a flamethrower like I did in the game (no witnesses bro).

Liked the episode and series a lot, 9/10 for me. I didnt hate the Riley episode but it was the weakest, first and fifth episodes were probably the strongest. I was totally good with the ending. Elle's mother was Elle's voice actress in the game, was good to see they got all of them in this season somehow. Elle's last scene was fantastic, glad they lifted it straight from the game.

This conversation feels like the result of someone "watching" this show while playing on their phone.

Ravishing said:

I'm not saying he was innocent. My entire point is I don't see why anyone will be mad at killing off Joel, other than liking the actor playing him.

He protected Ellie - great, but he's a terrible person nonetheless. Executing Marlene when she was already wounded and he could have easily got away lost any redemption arc for me. The excuse "she would go after them" is an unknown.

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You did pay attention to the post apocalyptic hellscape they were trying to navigate and that even in a world with a killer fungus the biggest danger to them was still other humans right?

The military ordered the execution of his daughter in the very first episode...

So 100% acceptable... except not. Got it.

Acceptable is going to be relativistic. If we place ourselves in the position of the main character, then how we view it will be different than a dispassionate and completely neutral 3rd party