The Last of Us

Lanx · Jan 30, 2023

Faux said:
Good episode overall. In the game, I remember it being like Bill was not open about it, but it was obvious in the letters you could find around his place. The emotional impact in this episode reminded me a bit of that one episode of "The Magicians" where Quentin and the other guy got stuck trying to recreate the Mosaic and lived out an entire life there, loved, Q got married to that girl and had a child that grew up and left home. His wife died and he ended up burying her and then he buried the other guy too and I thought the sense of loneliness and sadness was done well there too.

On the other hand, it felt strange to spend an entire episode on the Bill and Frank backstory when there are only 6 more episodes in the season. I feel like they have to split Part I into two seasons now. Also, it was missing Joel hanging upside down shooting infected while Ellie tries to get him down.

thats only memorable b/c youre so fucked in your freedom of movement and they jacked the aiming on purpose its like

take control of ellie for the first time and youre like damn, this bitch is weak, bow is cool... in the winter

Utnayan · Jan 30, 2023

Fight said:
This show is going to win Emmy's. HBO does it again.

Yeah it's kind of like making a movie/show about the holocaust in the 90's. (Schindlers list, Pianist, and Boy in the striped Pajamas were at least very good and deserved the awards.)

Now it's gay people. Because hey let's just toss this story line in here. Even

Ossoi , the acceptance posse, couldn't even watch those scenes without throwing up.

Utnayan · Jan 30, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Yea this show will win awards, and probably because of this episdoe, but not because it featured two gay men which is lore accurate.

I agree it was at least non stereotype written this time around. But if you think anyone in Hollyfucked is thinking anything other than "OH GAY STORY - EMMY TIME SO BRAVE!" you are delusional.

Juvarisx · Jan 30, 2023

Utnayan said:
I agree it was at least non stereotype written this time around. But if you think anyone in Hollyfucked is thinking anything other than "OH GAY STORY - EMMY TIME SO BRAVE!" you are delusional.

Except in this context it isn't brave it all. They aren't fighting against oppression because they love each other. Sure the world is shit but its equally shit for all there isnt a dude in a red hat driving by and calling them fags, or when Joel clearly isn't super comfortable with calling Frank Bill's boyfriend he chooses wording that wasn't belittling.

If people are going to call this episode agenda driven or the equivalent of 90's Holocaust movies / shows, then the entire point of calling shit out for being agenda driven is lost and its just "thing I am not comfortable with". The entire point of Bill of the game (and I am sure you know this cause you seem to play everything), is to show Joel what not to be and what happens if you give up on everything after you lose the one you care about the most. Sure they could do that for the show but why? It doesn't really serve a purpose in the context of fleshing out characters for a show. This version of Bill shows Joel what it could be for him to be vulnerable again and take care of this girl who needs help instead of being an asshole now that Tess is gone. He is a literal example of see even in this shit you can find a purpose and happiness.

They were not out fagging it up or talking like a fags. It was Ron Swanson doing manly things to protect the person he loves who just happened to be another dude

Utnayan · Jan 30, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Except in this context it isn't brave it all. They aren't fighting against oppression because they love each other. Sure the world is shit but its equally shit for all there isnt a dude in a red hat driving by and calling them fags, or when Joel clearly isn't super comfortable with calling Frank Bill's boyfriend he chooses wording that wasn't belittling.

If people are going to call this episode agenda driven or the equivalent of 90's Holocaust movies / shows, then the entire point of calling shit out for being agenda driven is lost and its just "thing I am not comfortable with". The entire point of Bill of the game (and I am sure you know this cause you seem to play everything), is to show Joel what not to be and what happens if you give up on everything after you lose the one you care about the most. Sure they could do that for the show but why? It doesn't really serve a purpose in the context of fleshing out characters for a show. This version of Bill shows Joel what it could be for him to be vulnerable again and take care of this girl who needs help instead of being an asshole now that Tess is gone. He is a literal example of see even in this shit you can find a purpose and happiness.

They were not out fagging it up or talking like a fags. It was Ron Swanson doing manly things to protect the person he loves who just happened to be another dude

I suppose you are right. Well put.

I am probably just over sensitive to the fact that 99.99999% of the time it's some outlandishly poorly written SJW statement and in this case it was actually really well acted and plausible. Whoever played Bill did a good job there.

I still stick to my guns that Elle's actress sucks ass and was a horrible casting error. And quite honestly, Frank's actor should have been Joel.

Aldarion · Jan 30, 2023

Never played the game so I dont have the issues with source accuracy. Good episode though.

The gay dudes were written and acted as relatable, normal human beings. I literally had no idea there was anything gay going on until he kissed the guy. I have absolutely zero gaydar apparently; my wife was like "theyre gay right?" somewhere around the time the piano came up.

If more gay scenes were written like this - like probably half the gay guys I've met in my life; just regular dudes who happen to have a completely bizarre and inexplicable fetish - it would do more good than all the "brave" depictions of fags fagging it up.

With all that said - if you throw a dude on dude love scene on TV, and you keep going, "hey lets get one more shot of them from this angle" - "hey now have him take his shirt off" etc. - you're doing that part solely for stunning and brave points. Cause everybody finds that shit gross to actually watch, no matter how open minded they are.

Ossoi · Jan 30, 2023

Utnayan said:
. Even Ossoi , the acceptance posse, couldn't even watch those scenes without throwing up.

you follow the forum about as well as your wife follows easy to understand post apocalypse shows

Frank's actor should have been Joel.

The guy that has played gay characters in 3 different shows in one year?

OneofOne · Jan 30, 2023

Aldarion said:
I literally had no idea there was anything gay going on until he kissed the guy. I have absolutely zero gaydar apparently; my wife was like "theyre gay right?" somewhere around the time the piano came up.

During and after the dinner I kept waiting for Frank to bash Bill's skull in, esp when Bill sat down at the piano and put his back to Frank. My wife's like "What are you talking about? They're gay."

I thought I was better at this game.

Arden · Jan 30, 2023

OneofOne said:
During and after the dinner I kept waiting for Frank to bash Bill's skull in, esp when Bill sat down at the piano and put his back to Frank. My wife's like "What are you talking about? They're gay."

I thought I was better at this game.

Did the same number with my wife. She was like, I can't tell if he's going to kill Ron Swanson or kiss him. And I was like well, could be both...

I'd probably survive for a while in an apocalypse, but I'd definitely kill a lot of innocent people

Juvarisx · Jan 30, 2023

Utnayan said:
I suppose you are right. Well put.

I am probably just over sensitive to the fact that 99.99999% of the time it's some outlandishly poorly written SJW statement and in this case it was actually really well acted and plausible. Whoever played Bill did a good job there.

I still stick to my guns that Elle's actress sucks ass and was a horrible casting error. And quite honestly, Frank's actor should have been Joel.

Agree with you on Elle, there are times where I am like okay she is getting better then it just doesn't work for me again. I know it would have made some people really mad, but having the girl who played Sarah as Elle would have been a good choice, if for no other reason she was a really great young actress and I don't know many of those lol.

Faux · Jan 30, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Agree with you on Elle, there are times where I am like okay she is getting better then it just doesn't work for me again. I know it would have made some people really mad, but having the girl who played Sarah as Elle would have been a good choice, if for no other reason she was a really great young actress and I don't know many of those lol.

Sarah casting was great. I'm really on the fence regarding Ellie, but leaning towards not working for me. If they are going to do it, next episode should be...

Ellie talking about a giant dong in a porn mag in the back seat while Joel drives.

Ossoi · Jan 30, 2023

I didn't guess Bill was gay. Nor Frank, despite him being gay IRL and in his last two TV shows. I was more suspicious that his hospitality would end badly. I also questioned his survivalist instincts

Utnayan · Jan 30, 2023

Ossoi said:
The guy that has played gay characters in 3 different shows in one year?

I have never seen the dude before in my life, but he should be able to play a heterosexual Joel. Heterosexuals are playing Gay people all the time. He just looks more like Joel in the game.

spronk · Jan 30, 2023

story was a bit manipulative in a spielberg way in how "perfect" Bill and Franks relationship was, any hardships they had they worked out together and were happy. We didn't see a mom and her kids begging to be let inside, Frank wanting to, Bill refusing. We didn't see Bill's traps kill a random couple walking by. Or Frank destroying Bills stuff after a dumb argument, or leaving the fence open in anger after an argument, or walking out of the fenced zone in anger after an argument. You know, stupid shit women/femme gays do. Outside the single bizarro raider attack (Bill standing on the street firing was poor tactics) the two never felt in any danger, which is weird.

But nah, this is the "perfect" couple, Great twilight zone episode but the whole episode spent on their relationship was strange. It definitely worked with critics and modern audiences though, pretty much perfect scores from everyone.

Ossoi · Jan 30, 2023

spronk said:
story was a bit manipulative in a spielberg way in how "perfect" Bill and Franks relationship was, any hardships they had they worked out together and were happy. We didn't see a mom and her kids begging to be let inside, Frank wanting to, Bill refusing. We didn't see Bill's traps kill a random couple walking by. Or Frank destroying Bills stuff after a dumb argument, or leaving the fence open in anger after an argument, or walking out of the fenced zone in anger after an argument. You know, stupid shit women/femme gays do. Outside the single bizarro raider attack (Bill standing on the street firing was poor tactics) the two never felt in any danger, which is weird.

But nah, this is the "perfect" couple, Great twilight zone episode but the whole episode spent on their relationship was strange. It definitely worked with critics and modern audiences though, pretty much perfect scores from everyone.

textbook moronic

spronk comment

They cut from them making gay love for first time to Frank storming out the house and slamming the door.

They didn't show them arguing about letting kids inside - just Frank making contact with outsiders against Bills wishes and inviting those insiders to trade, against Bills wishes, and Frank persuading Bill that such trades are win win.

honestly just go spam FSR like your intellectual counterpart

Chukzombi

Fadaar · Jan 30, 2023

Arden said:
Did the same number with my wife. She was like, I can't tell if he's going to kill Ron Swanson or kiss him. And I was like well, could be both...

I'd probably survive for a while in an apocalypse, but I'd definitely kill a lot of innocent people

my apocalypse plan is what i like to call "the buffer zone". if i see it i kill it.

Cybsled · Jan 30, 2023

Frank probably helped Bill survive longer than he would have on his own. Like Joel pointed out, some of Bill’s defenses weren’t going to last and by facilitating a Joel+Tess trading partnership, they were able to get some things they couldn’t have gotten on their own. Bill may have been shot even if Frank wasn’t there, so having someone who can administer first aid is good. Even simple shit like strawberries that they couldn’t have gotten without venturing further out. Plus, despite any clout we put forward, humans are a social species. By having someone else to interact with and care about, it probably helped prevent Bill from becoming no better than the raiders and other human animals of the wasteland. He at least got to live and end his life as a normal person in an extreme circumstance

Malakriss · Jan 30, 2023

Replace Frank with a woman and you would think the story was completely impossible.

Ambiturner · Jan 30, 2023

spronk said:
story was a bit manipulative in a spielberg way in how "perfect" Bill and Franks relationship was, any hardships they had they worked out together and were happy. We didn't see a mom and her kids begging to be let inside, Frank wanting to, Bill refusing. We didn't see Bill's traps kill a random couple walking by. Or Frank destroying Bills stuff after a dumb argument, or leaving the fence open in anger after an argument, or walking out of the fenced zone in anger after an argument. You know, stupid shit women/femme gays do. Outside the single bizarro raider attack (Bill standing on the street firing was poor tactics) the two never felt in any danger, which is weird.

But nah, this is the "perfect" couple, Great twilight zone episode but the whole episode spent on their relationship was strange. It definitely worked with critics and modern audiences though, pretty much perfect scores from everyone.

You're on to something. They didn't show full penetration anal, either. Why not??

What are they hiding?

Frenzied Wombat · Jan 30, 2023

The “Emmy award” nonsense is a joke. Ask yourself this, if the entire episode had been rewritten so that Bill found a hot chick in that hole that also liked a fine beaujolais with her grilled rabbit, and the story played out the same way with her getting MS in the end, would it still be considered “Emmy worthy”? Or would it’s simply be a replay on an age old story— man protects woman, woman falls in love, and love is lost through some tragedy.
Let’s face it, it’s “Emmy worthy” not because of the story, but because a time old story was redone with dudes running each others fingers through their chest hair instead.
Really, the only difference between these two identical stories is that one I can relate to, while the other made me slightly nauseous. That doesn’t make me a hater, it just makes me someone that’s been biologically evolved to view male buttsex on par with watching maggots. It’s hard to be “emotionally touched” when you’re inclined to cringe and look away from the tv.
Also, they don’t spend much time even evolving that “love”— like Maybe Bill saving him from zombies or teaching him to fire a rifle or whatever. We got a scene with strawberries. They could have passed on the buttsex part, and did more actual emotional evolution.

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