The Trayvon Trial

Vaclav_sl said:

There's a world of difference between calling the cops and letting them deal with it (as the 911 operator suggestion stated) and doing it yourself after calling them.

Click to expand...

but in FL they got citizen arrests bro, he was doing his civil duty to detain the suspect before the cops got there!

Selix_sl said:

Good post except assuming Trayvon was guilty of anything is just as bad as assuming Zimmerman is a mass murderer. He was walking home with a bottle of tea and skittles.

I'm more then willing to grant that there isn't enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of murder but there does need to be something in the law that encourages armed people to avoid situations where they might feel the need to defend their selves by killing someone else. Not because I have anything against gun owners but because it creates a loop hole where drug dealers, murderers, and criminals can legitimately kill anyone who they feel endangers them and claim legal self defense.

Normally this would be a slippery slope but it's already happening.

This isn't just in reference to SYG this is just in general.

Click to expand...

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Trayvon and Zimmerman are equal in this. I hold Zimmerman responsible, because he was the adult in this situation. He was walking around playing wanna-be cop and instead of actually being ready for a confrontation like he should have been, he instead got in over his head and went for his gun (which should have been his last resort). He was the one who started the chain of events and he should have known better. Unfortunately, we just don't know who initiated the final physical confrontation, so I don't see how they can reasonably convict him.

Selix_sl said:

I'm more then willing to grant that there isn't enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of murder but there does need to be something in the law that encourages armed people to avoid situations where they might feel the need to defend their selves by killing someone else. Not because I have anything against gun owners but because it creates a loop hole where drug dealers, murderers, and criminals can legitimately kill anyone who they feel endangers them and claim legal self defense.

Normally this would be a slippery slope but it's already happening.

This isn't just in reference to SYG this is just in general.

Click to expand...

At least in Texas, I don't think you can use SYG when you are committing a crime. So that should close most of your loopholes.

TecKnoe_sl said:

but in FL they got citizen arrests bro, he was doing his civil duty to detain the suspect before the cops got there!

Click to expand...

Citizen's arrest requires witnessing a crime actually committed last I checked.

I can't just be like "Hey, there's a dude who looks fishy - CITIZENS ARREST MUTHAFUCKA!"

Big Phoenix_sl said:

Click to expand...

Anyone mind translating that to English? Something about paying her phone, but once I get to the second line the shitty grammar could be read multiple ways.

Trollface_sl said:

you just made that sound awesome.

Click to expand...

I was channeling my inner Samuel L. Jackson

Caliel_sl said:

At least in Texas, I don't think you can use SYG when you are committing a crime. So that should close most of your loopholes.

Click to expand...

Found the news report in question about hows its been used in Florida:

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/

Wow, some of those stats on the bottom part - 135/182 cases in FL that it's applied to the dead person was unarmed for example, pretty astonishing how loosely it's applied.

And wow, even applied to a shootout between drug dealers where a little girl got caught in the crossfire. What horseshit.

PS - Love Dexter, Troll - maybe that was in my subconscious.

cinge_sl said:

I don't get it. Was the kid walking down the street/sidewalk and this guy confronted him or was he walking in backyards/behind houses etc?

Click to expand...

TecKnoe_sl said:

Just like cinge said, if i saw random dude roaming through my neighbors yards id probably ask what the fuck was up, or shoot him(if he was black)

Click to expand...

From that timeline and map that Hodj had posted earlier, it appeared that the houses' yards backed on to a communal walking path, with the houses on either side.

And unfortunately I think that timeline/map is probably pretty accurate: Zimmerman stopped and questioned Martin at the North end of the path, Martin took off a bit freaked out and walked down the path to his dad's place, got pissed off once the initial fright of being followed had worn off, confronted Zimmerman (who had lost him and was surprised by him) and quite probably started the altercation, started winning, and got shot.

Nothing about Zimmerman strikes me as the kind of guy to actually start a physical fight. He'd talk a big game, but as soon as push came to shove he'd be a quivering pussy. And wasn't Martin significantly bigger than him as well?

No one's an angel here. Had Zimmerman not been armed he'd likely just have gotten his ass beaten and Martin would have been charged for assault. But as Lithose has said, Zimmerman hadn't done anything to deserve a beating in the first place (legally anyways, personally I think he probably deserved an ass kicking).

The whole situation just fucking sucks for everyone involved.

Darshu_sl said:

It doesn't help he was observed walking between and behind houses. Yes that is suspicious and yes I've openly confronted people doing that around my house while armed in RL.

Click to expand...

He was on a fucking walking path, for christ's sake.

Vaclav_sl said:

Citizen's arrest requires witnessing a crime actually committed last I checked.

I can't just be like "Hey, there's a dude who looks fishy - CITIZENS ARREST MUTHAFUCKA!"

Click to expand...

Correct but that doesn't mean you can't ask someone walking between and behind houses at night what the hell they're doing. Especially if its raining and you don't recognize them. I'm not even a member of the neighborhood watch and I call someone out on that in my neighborhood.

If that's what Zimmerman did and Travyon jumped him I wouldn't call it Zimmerman's fault at all.

Its interestin how everyone wants to bring up the race of Martin when we simply do not know if Zimmerman would have acted differently if a white man unknown to him was walking through someones back yard. It is all speculation and that does not hold up in court. We do know that Martin refered to Zimmerman as a "creepy ass cracker," there is no debate there. Lynching Zimmerman for what we speculate he did based off of race and failing to bring up the racist remarks made by Martin is unjust.

We have no eye witnesses and the only people that heard sounds are not positive as to whom and what they heard. Thus the only evidence we can use to make a proven conclusion are the photographs of Zimmerman and Martin. The photographs of the back of Zimmerman's bloody head are enough to tell me that it is plausible that he was in fear for his life and took protective action. Do we know the events that took place leading up to the confrontation? No we do not, and we can speculate all day but that is not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman planned and executed Martin.

Caliel_sl said:

At least in Texas, I don't think you can use SYG when you are committing a crime.So that should close most of your loopholes.

Click to expand...

...... Says the dead witness?

Darshu_sl said:

Correct but that doesn't mean you can't ask someone walking between and behind houses at night what the hell they're doing. Especially if its raining and you don't recognize them. I'm not even a member of the neighborhood watch and I call someone out on that in my neighborhood.

If that's what Zimmerman did and Travyon jumped him I wouldn't call it Zimmerman's fault at all.

Click to expand...

Except he wanted to be part of the neighborhood watch - and that neighborhood watch had two rules in the Trayvon incident he broke:
1) Don't carry a weapon is part of their charter or whatever, 2) As soon as you see something suspicious CALL THE COPS THEN WAIT AT THE FRONT OF THE COMMUNITY for the police to arrive (I guess in case they need help to ID).

So what he was doing wasn't being a neighborhood watch, since he wasn't following their policies. And for that community the path and houses aren't apart much - the "yards" there are like 3-4 foot wide at the widest parts I've seen. Similar to the townhome the wife and I had before getting married (in Columbia, MD).

Maester Chuk_sl said:

I think its illegal to walk in someones backyard if you dont have their permission

Click to expand...

Holy fuck. He wasn't walking in people's backyards. He was walking down a path between people's houses, as far as I can tell. This is the image Hodj had posted before:



Google maps:http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.79...hl=en&t=m&z=16

Looks like they're townhouses, and none of them have fenced yards. He was on public, or at least semi-public property (common property of whatever homeowner association technically owned it, I suppose). Not in fenced private property.

He was gung-ho neighborhood watch guy, nice, quiet, not angry (according to testimony) who was following an unrecognized person in a hoodie walking through his neighborhood. "Suspect" goes all gangster thug and like what you be doing up in heah, cracka? MexiJew freaks out, uuuh nothin man, and thug is all yeah, muthafucka, then hits him in the face. Shit ensues, MexiJew freaks out, and, afraid for his life, shoots the dude. No evidence to dispute that's what happened. There can be no evidence disputing it unless someone saw the whole thing, which no one did.

Was I properly equal-opportunity Racist?

P.S. Can at least one fucking US News station put on real fucking news. I'm super cereal.