True Detective

Alex_sl said:

I too think there were too many loose ends. Vehement defenders keep hammering the "but it's all about the characters, not the case" point, but the entire show encompasses the beginning to end of the case. It's all about the fucking case. The first half of the season sets up things so well and then it feels like it really slows down in the final two episodes and it's a bit unrewarding. Great, great show. But I am disappointed at the end. How much evidence do you think they were able to recover from that old fort? That all led to dead ends? All this talk of the "sprawl" of this case ends with one psycho redneck in the swamp? It's really unsatisfying.

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I really don't think it is. The case is the backdrop in which we are exposed to the characters. That doesn't mean there aren't problems with the ending and with the story as a whole. And I still really am not fond of all the symbolism for symbolism's sake. My disappointment that this show didn't turn out to be Twin Peaks in the Lovecraftian Realm doesn't make it a bad show or even an unsatisfying show, to me. With expectations like that I was setting myself up for failure. If that is what I thought I was watching.

The Ancient_sl said:

Well obviously it doesn't paint her as a ritualistic victim but what she was depicting at the age she depictedit points directly to sexual abuse, not an absentee father.

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Seriously? You don't think she may have heard/seen those things from her friends? Perhaps got hold of mom/dad's porno stash? Nah, had to be rape..

Kirun_sl said:

Seriously? You don't think she may have heard/seen those things from her friends? Perhaps got hold of mom/dad's porno stash? Nah, had to be rape..

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I'm just now realizing my brothers and most of my classmates were molested as kids. At least half half the boys in my class were violated

I wasn't one of the people with crazy theories. Yes, I thought something was going on with the daughter. But that wasn't a crazy conjecture. I'm not fitting anything with the narrative I had built up in my mind. I'm talking about things that were laid out clear as day in the show - the sprawl of the Tuttles, who else was involved, what was up with the dad chained to the bed. I feel it's a bit insulting to us, the audience, when this case - that we've spent a good amount of time with - is cast aside at the end. I don't care about a reveal of who was the yellow king (I don't think it's a person) or explaining every intricate detail. But goddammit, give us something.

Unfortunately, there were so many batshit insane "theories" going around that people think if you were unsatisfied with the ending, it's because you had one of those batshit insane theories that didn't pan out.

A lot of things in real life aren't tidy and not everything is resolved.

As for the daughter and her Barbie dolls, kids do weird shit all the time. It's usually the little brother who strips them all naked and poses them, he does this to torment his sister. I think that scene said more about the daughter taking after the skirt chasing Marty. The other daughter takes after mom.

Alex_sl said:

I'm talking about things that were laid out clear as day in the show - the sprawl of the Tuttles, who else was involved, what was up with the dad chained to the bed.

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The stuff doesnt really matter, like mentioned the story was about the Rust and Marty show and their journey, not the case, even when they start going into details with Marty about the case Marty tells them to shut up and he doesnt want to hear anymore, its all about resolve with his family and breakdown ect

chaos_sl said:

It was silly. So every troubled kid in the state is being raped by the Tuttles? The show wasn't about the crimes, the crimes were a backdrop tot he story of these two guys. Sorry if that ruined your black panther party.

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I agree with this. The outcome was fine, but the reason why I felt the scenes were silly/clumsy is because the showeventuallysettled into a straight forward, no frills crime drama. However the first four episodes had foreshadowing that was pretty muddled and could be interpreted in a lot of different ways (Not a huge leap to believe there were twists with some of the stuff). It was just kind of clumsy foreshadowing, that's why I felt it was silly. (And I say it's clumsy because it was obviously set up to misdirect people a little, in fact the episode is called "seeing things"--heh, it's not hard to believe he was trolling a little. Even his comments that we've been "abused" as a TV audience leads me to believe he was fucking with us on some levels, which I must admit, is pretty funny.)

However, I have no problem with the conclusion that it ended up just being an absentee father who ended up having a daughter who acted out. That's a fine conclusion. I just wish the road to that conclusion was a bit cleaner to follow, if the show's writer was so adament about the show being concise and clear.

But like I said earlier, it doesn't take away from the show for me. I just think the show's writer is being disingenuous with his post-publishing statements a little bit. (Because the first 4 episodes it was not at all clear the show was supposed to be a simple narrative, with heavy/complex characters. It wasn't a huge leap to think the narrative was complex as well.)

chaos_sl said:

I really don't think it is. The case is the backdrop in which we are exposed to the characters. That doesn't mean there aren't problems with the ending and with the story as a whole. And I still really am not fond of all the symbolism for symbolism's sake. My disappointment that this show didn't turn out to be Twin Peaks in the Lovecraftian Realm doesn't make it a bad show or even an unsatisfying show, to me. With expectations like that I was setting myself up for failure. If that is what I thought I was watching.

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nobody is saying the show is bad, the acting and most of the story was top notch. i cant praise these performances highly enough, but at the end of the day, we still ended up getting trolled by the director. its called true detective, but the detecting is left to the lead actors who find a clue and pounce. traditional detective shows have the detective go around compiling information and it gives us the viewer a chance to put our own detective hats on and try to solve it with them. this show was all drama then when they needed to work on the case, they catch a break and work it. we dont get to use our brains, we just watch and enjoy the scenery chewing between matt and woody.

next time around i wont even bother guessing about anything because now that i know what pizzolato is playing at, ill just enjoy the acting and check my monkey brain at the door when it comes to anything close to a whodunnit.

When did they not go around compiling information? Rust took all they had from the previous cases, and continued to follow the threads once he got back. They traced the lead on the man with the scars, figuring out the family connections along the way. A lot of people just got too caught up in possible symbolism and imagery supposedly being some clue to some twist that was yet to come instead of just realizing it was all about Rust and Marty.

Just because it wasn't meant to be some big Lost mystery doesn't meant here is nothing to be gained from an intelligent analysis of the material and the symbolism within. The King in Yellow stuff was very interesting and added a lot to the story. It is a story and we are better having enjoyed it, but all roads in this story do not lead to rapey cultists.

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

It is amazing how people are blaming the show for not having their shit theories be true.

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Yeah, that's what's happening, I was super invested in some theory I cooked up and not just curious where breadcrumbs were leading.

Merrith_sl said:

When did they not go around compiling information? Rust took all they had from the previous cases, and continued to follow the threads once he got back. They traced the lead on the man with the scars, figuring out the family connections along the way. A lot of people just got too caught up in possible symbolism and imagery supposedly being some clue to some twist that was yet to come instead of just realizing it was all about Rust and Marty.

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the information was misleading and almost none of it lead to the murderer. sure it made good tv, but at the last second, hey look at this. green house is green? wait another second. green house, green ears? killer! lets check tax records and catch our man. thats not compiling. thats jumping to conclusions.

Homsar_sl said:

He said "I think we would be a whole lot safer if we staged something marty, push the maserati over a guardrail"

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Ah thanks, nice.

Those weren't the only clues though. It also goes back to what is apparently shitty video editing. The tulip picture (seriously, it's like...the exact same fucking painting) and the spiral drawing. NP came back said, "oh we just messed up there", but with all the detail and care in this show I find that hard to believe. It's not an unwillingness to let go of a theory, it's an unwillingness to let NP off the hook just because the rest of the show was awesome. I know some of you are all 10/10 greatest show ever, but understand that it wasn't perfection and there are warranted gripes. Stop being such fan boys.

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

It is amazing we have Lithose and Astro not letting go. No one was trolling, you were just generating way too much "information" from fleeting scenes.

Like how Marty's daughter probably went to a Tuttle schools or how not wanting Grnadpa to help with something means he is a rapist.

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Seriously. Some people in this thread have a serious case of, "hearing footsteps and thinking it's elephants" going on. You can interpret things a million different ways, if you sit down and over analyze it to death, always searching for some hidden or "deeper" meaning.

Kirun_sl said:

Seriously. Some people in this thread have a serious case of, "hearing footsteps and thinking it's elephants" going on. You can interpret things a million different ways, if you sit down and over analyze it to death, always searching for some hidden or "deeper" meaning.

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I kinda like to think they did intentionally include these subtle little red herrings for no other reason than to make this point. Dunno if I really have any basis for that, but I'm going with it anyway!