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Jox

Molten Core Raider
653
539
People here trying to defend the predatory twitch against the greedy music industry. el oh el. If 99% of twitch isn't about music then it shouldn't have any effect on your experience. If smaller artists that would want the exposure is your concern, this should help them. Big labels will DMCA all your content, you're forced to play more indie small artists that won't.
 

goishen

Macho Ma'am
3,616
14,722
Yeah I don't think YouTube should be able to geoblock people's content because it *might* include music they couldn't license, that's ridiculous. But that's not what's happening here. The content that is getting pulled/disallowed from Twitch is content that does in fact contain copyrighted material. I understand that it's a negotiation tactic that's going to piss off a lot of end users - that's the point of it. You see it all the time in TV cable contract negotiations where a media company pulls it's channels from a package because they're not getting the rate they want in a new contract. Almost without fail though the subscribers start bitching and canceling and not long after they have a new contract. Is that what will happen here? I guess we'll see. But all this moaning about the record industry "asking for too much" is pretty nonsensical considering we, the public, have no idea what they are actually asking for other than they want more than they're getting now which is *nothing*.


Oh and hey. Water is wet.

Anything else new and interesting you wanted insight on?
 

kegkilla

The Big Mod
<Banned>
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We know the record industry is greedy as fuck from prior negotiations and lawsuits with other entities, so reasonable to assume they are trying the same tactics.
Do you have any actual examples of record industry greed? Any examples of the record companies having cities submit proposals for a new HQ full of tax incentives so that taxpayers are effectively subsidizing a company that earns billions in profit? Or are you going to fall back on the same tired examples of record companies using the legal system to protect their copyrights as P2P networks completely gutted their business?

I can go ahead and give you one. I find it pretty disgusting when the industry goes after cover bands and bars that don't have the licensing agreements in place to perform cover songs.

But let's not pretend Amazon is on some sort of moral high ground here. They're as filthy and disgusting as any other corporation out there.
 
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slippery

<Bronze Donator>
7,910
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Do you have any actual examples of record industry greed? Any examples of the record companies having cities submit proposals for a new HQ full of tax incentives so that taxpayers are effectively subsidizing a company that earns billions in profit? Or are you going to fall back on the same tired examples of record companies using the legal system to protect their copyrights as P2P networks completely gutted their business?
You just keep posting examples of the music industry failing to adapt to the world we live in. Imagine a video game console that only had physical media. That's what the music industry wants. They've got forced into adapting extremely slowly because they keep losing. You're trying to say itunes, a service in which people paid for the music they wanted, was the downfall of the music industry?

The reality is a Twitch streamer could very likely fight the DMCA stuff and argue playing Pandora is very much the same fair use case as playing a radio in a restaurant, and it's a case they would win. They won't because it's not worth the money.

Fair use is incredibly vague intentionally, but that means it has to go to court to be fought. The precidents and standings on a lot of it really show their age.
 
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goishen

Macho Ma'am
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That's why I say that all of it should be tossed over into free domain after 10 years. Of course, Captain Obvious (err, I mean @China Bat Soup ) over here, refuses to address this, and refuses to go back and read my rant.

If the billions of dollars per year music industry can't take a shitpost from a guy like me, that shows how big of babies they truly are. And here comes their white knight, Captain Obvious to the rescue. It is a uniquely millennial position, IMO. Because anybody that went through what happened with napster, doesn't hold the same position.

He keeps on posting the way things are. Water is wet. Yes, we get it.
 
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kegkilla

The Big Mod
<Banned>
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You just keep posting examples of the music industry failing to adapt to the world we live in. Imagine a video game console that only had physical media. That's what the music industry wants.
This is just absurd. The record industry has been on board with digital since iTunes launched in 2003. What they're asking for is Twitch/Amazon to pay up like YouTube, Spotify, Pandora, and everyone else. No idea how you would extrapolate that to mean they want to go back to physical media.
They've got forced into adapting extremely slowly because they keep losing.
They've definitely made mistakes along the way. But continuing to enforce their copyrights isn't one of them.
You're trying to say itunes, a service in which people paid for the music they wanted, was the downfall of the music industry?
No, iTunes isn't a P2P network. P2P networks were applications such as Napster, Kazaa, Limewire, etc. iTunes launch is the inflection point on the chart where the crashing revenue started to level off. Did you even look at the chart?
The reality is a Twitch streamer could very likely fight the DMCA stuff and argue playing Pandora is very much the same fair use case as playing a radio in a restaurant, and it's a case they would win. They won't because it's not worth the money.
I really doubt this considering that the law explicitly limits the size of the venue that can play unlicensed music via the radio, and I'm even more doubtful that you have any understanding of case law beyond "feels".
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
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Free Domain after 10 years? LOL.

Would be a filmmakers wet dream. Imagine the Disney knock-offs that would crop up incorporating every classic song. Funny to think about.
Would be so shitty to be a music artist and watch your work used for free to enrich others.
I don't think there is any clear cut solution but it really does break down to Music industry vs Amazon. And I can see a world where Twitch finds a way to license music for its partners.
It just seems painful now since poor streamers are being hit first.

I don't know that I agree about the music industry being behind the times. Music seems forced to adapt the quickest since the content is so easy to pirate. They have to adapt quickly to new content distribution, losing CD sales way before the film industry had to worry about it. Moving on to MP3s & dealing with internet piracy way before film/tv.
 

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
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No, iTunes isn't a P2P network. P2P networks were applications such as Napster, Kazaa, Limewire, etc. iTunes launch is the inflection point on the chart where the crashing revenue started to level off. Did you even look at the chart?
I'm done responding to you, you can't even look at/read the shit you post that goes against your own arguments

1592330128520.png


Yep, the crashing revenue sure did level off
 
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Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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goishen

Macho Ma'am
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Free Domain after 10 years? LOL.

Would be a filmmakers wet dream. Imagine the Disney knock-offs that would crop up incorporating every classic song. Funny to think about.
Would be so shitty to be a music artist and watch your work used for free to enrich others.
I don't think there is any clear cut solution but it really does break down to Music industry vs Amazon. And I can see a world where Twitch finds a way to license music for its partners.
It just seems painful now since poor streamers are being hit first.

I don't know that I agree about the music industry being behind the times. Music seems forced to adapt the quickest since the content is so easy to pirate. They have to adapt quickly to new content distribution, losing CD sales way before the film industry had to worry about it. Moving on to MP3s & dealing with internet piracy way before film/tv.


It's not really the film makers that would benefit from this. It's the advertisers. Imagine if we had Revolution, by The Beatles playing on every advertisement?

And I'm only saying 10 years because of the extreme, already in place, over reaction that copyright law extends. If I go and say, "Hey, look, guys, we really need 50 years of copyright law...." They'll try and make as high as possible. But it's not like I'm invited to the table anyway. So, I don't really see why it matters.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
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So you don't understand what an inflection point is. Not shocking.

View attachment 278338

Is iTunes really the inflection point? Because from my research it doesn't seem so.
From charts I see, iTunes exacerbated the decline.
Looking at charts, after iTunes, the drops steepened from around 2005 - 2010, finally leveling off.
Then Spotify comes out 2013 and Revenues begin to increase.
Streaming is now a significant source of Revenue.

itunes.PNG


spotify.PNG

sales.PNG
 
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kegkilla

The Big Mod
<Banned>
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Is iTunes really the inflection point? Because from my research it doesn't seem so.
From charts I see, iTunes exacerbated the decline.
Looking at charts, after iTunes, the drops steepened from around 2005 - 2010, finally leveling off.
Then Spotify comes out 2013 and Revenues begin to increase.
Streaming is now a significant source of Revenue.

View attachment 278339

View attachment 278340
View attachment 278341
Based on CNN graph I'd put the inflection point around 2005-06, right around the time iTunes gained widespread adoption and the iPod was a big thing. It's important to evaluate these things in context. I think the emergence of iTunes accelerated the transition to digital, which was never going to be as lucrative as physical media for record companies. Does this mean that iTunes crushed the revenues for the recording industry? No, I don't think that's fair to say. As we know, the revenues were already in freefall at the time iTunes was released mainly due to P2P sharing which the recording industry didn't see a cent of. iTunes was a tournicut for the bleeding caused by P2P sharing. The options were to bite the bullet and adopt a digital model that's palatable to customers who had become accustomed to picking and choosing the individual songs they want to hear, or to sit and watch as their world burns to the ground. With the benefit of hindsight, I think they made the right choice.
 

goishen

Macho Ma'am
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14,722
The problem with tourniquets is that you sometimes lose the limb. And I would say that the limb that has been lost here, the music industry is fighting to try and save. Because, "BUT, BUT, BUT, WE OWN IT!!@@!" They wanna control how people get access to it. They wanna control how people buy it. They want control over everything.

It's not about copyrights, or even ownership, or even money. It's about control, and that is the name of the limb that is in danger.
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
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109,026
I've been watching Gingerliness as she is one of the few streamers for Tarkov. Still not sure if I want to play the game. But holy god the amount of total faggots that rider her tits in the chat is absurd. Even though she has like two kids and is married and tells all the simps that.

Sad culture we live in today.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,275
15,102
The problem with tourniquets is that you sometimes lose the limb. And I would say that the limb that has been lost here, the music industry is fighting to try and save. Because, "BUT, BUT, BUT, WE OWN IT!!@@!" They wanna control how people get access to it. They wanna control how people buy it. They want control over everything.

It's not about copyrights, or even ownership, or even money. It's about control, and that is the name of the limb that is in danger.
They literally just don't want someone BROADCASTING music they own. I don't understand why panties are in a bunch over this. This is how business works.
 
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