Twitch.tv
- Thread starter Mick
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99% of everything I play is DMCA-able, not because I refuse to play things that aren't, but because music performance on Twitch is generally a supply-demand thing. Very few people are interested in hearing new things that don't have any play at all, and everyone wants to hear the things that they know and love, so the latter is charted for Rocksmith much more readily than the former.
Don't get me wrong, there is a good amount of indie stuff charted, it's just that isn't what the majority of my viewers want. So if that's all I'm willing to play, they'll just go elsewhere (and I don't halfway blame them).
Between songs/sets, I do play free-use music in the background. When I'm playing a game (WoW or whatever), I play free-use stuff as well, but there have been plenty of people getting DMCA takedowns for things like a) free-use music that is attributed incorrectly by algorithms, b) game music that is included in OSTs, and is therefore "claimable".Alkorin There's free-use music sources available, what's the issue with using those? Don't trust them or just don't like them?
The problem is two-fold. The industry moves more slowly than the technology - we've seen this before with Napster, etc. - and there has been a complete lack of real-time sources of income for the record labels this year. No shows, no major events, no concerts, relatively fewer movies, etc. So, in intensifying the takedown requests and threats of litigation, the record labels have found a new way to milk their assets, at the expense of the very people who are essentially giving them free advertising. I can't even tell how much new songs and/or artists I've been introduced to through others' streams, and through requests on my stream, but it's a very large number. This is free fucking advertising for their clients (you know, the musicians), and they are literally kicking us in the mouth for it.
e.g. I enjoyed playing Amorphis's Queen of Time album so much that I went and bought a copy. That's a sale they'd never have had without someone recommending them to me and me hearing them on Twitch. There are hundreds more. I listen to (or have listened to) them all on Apple Music. I'm listening to Nightwish right now, as I type this, and I never knew they existed before I heard them on Twitch.
Bottom line: The record labels are dinosaurs and they will lose this one, just like they lost the Napster war (even after winning the actual Napster battle). It's just a question of whether Twitch/Amazon put the nail in the coffin or not.
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LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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I think you don't have any fucking idea what it costs to fight even a single copyright claim in court. I also don't think you have any idea how far the DMCA stacks the deck in the favor of the rightsholder, even in cases which are obvious fair use.
Now, if we are just talking about these Twitch idiots taking donations for song requests then sure, there is no way that is legit. Having music on in the background when the game audio is also on and not having the music be any part of the focus of the stream? There clearly should be a way to allow that for a reasonable fee from either Twitch itself or the individuals.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I exclusively watch music-free streams. I have better taste than all the streamers, I know what I want to listen to. I'm also not getting "song requests". Hey everyone, listen to what I like. I could just open it for myself and listen to it, but I want all of you to listen to it too.
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Yeah, this does not happen in my stream, for sure. You can request, but you're in the same pile as everyone else, regardless of bits/subs/VIP/anything else.
If you take money to play certain songs, regardless of why, you're a fool.
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uniqueuser
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Song requests lol. How boring is it to watch someone else play videogames that they have to play disc jockey too.
People want to share music they like with people. That's what it's about.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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This. Sometimes it's a "hey I heard you liked this band, check out THIS band." Othertimes it's a "dude I like this listen to it so you'll like this and I can feel connected to you!" The second one can be a bit cringey for sure. I had people suggesting metal and shit which I don't mind, but 75% of the time it wasn't my jam it was theirs. And if you like one song they'll just keep DJing for 2-5 dollars a time which can be somewhat awkward. Most affiliates grinding games like PoE or Everquest where there's a lot of monotony used to use song request where you simply just !sr and a youtube link and it played any song within your personal constraints (number of views, length, category etc). It was pretty nice for shit like 8 hour grinds as to which people like
Bobbybick
can attest. Sometimes your custom playlist of 200+ songs is good, but if you're doing 40-80 hours a week of it it's not enough. You need other people bringing stuff out. Especially if you're into weird meme shit like Gachi and streamer-remixes. I like a lot of that stuff, but I have very little idea when the new hot Gachi jams come out unless I overhear it on another streamers stream. Now I basically never hear that shit because I have song requests off so Sony corporate doesn't fuck my ass.Btw it's Sony. It's always Sony. If you want to point fingers? It's Sony.
Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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What is "obvious fair use" in the context of playing music you don't have the rights to under game footage on a Twitch stream? These instances are infinitesimal with respect to entire body of content that receives DMCA takedowns.
LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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You didn't read my post very closely. You are conflating all DMCA takedowns with those based on music played while streaming. I never said playing music while streaming was obviously fair use. I even specifically said that doing so for donations was a violation of the law. I did, however, suggest that there is a fair use argument to be made for music played in the background of a stream that also has game music and sfx being played over top of it. However, the most logical path forward is a reasonable fee payed by Twitch or individually by streamers to allow the content to be played, but that is unlikely to happen since it would reveal the laughably small value that the majority of songs actually command. It is exactly the reason you don't see any offers of that sort of licensing for streaming.
Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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Byr
Potato del Grande
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Hey now, theres an argument to be made even if its an obviously losing one.
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Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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sakkath
Trakanon Raider
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I've had facebook remove videos of my children playing video games, dancing to music in shopping centers and whatnot. In each case I submitted challenges citing "fair dealing" (the Australian equivalent of fair use) and facebook restored the videos in short order.
The videos were all private and so it's just algorithms getting them, although it's usually months or even years after I uploaded the video before this has happened which is a bit odd.
The videos were all private and so it's just algorithms getting them, although it's usually months or even years after I uploaded the video before this has happened which is a bit odd.
LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Do you pay a licensing fee to rights holders when you have a party where you have music playing in the background?
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Kriptini
Vyemm Raider
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Technically speaking, yes, you have to. But unless you have one of the rightsholders at your party, you're not going to get sued.
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