Waco

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Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Khane said:
Jonestown is the reason Waco escalated the way it did.
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No, the ATF needed to put on a grand display showing how important and useful they are. iirc they where facing funding cuts when this went down.

Ruby Ridge was somewhat similar and shows a clear pattern of the ATF being pieces of shit.
 
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a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

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One of the interesting factoids provided at the end was how many structural fires happened after the use of tear gas. And the tear gas that was used in this situation had been banned several months prior, due to its mechanism of action, and the chemistry involved made it a biological weapon -- hydrogen cyanide and chlorine gas were byproducts. The ATF and FBI were acting like exterminators would, literally poking holes into spaces and flooding them with chemicals. "Oh shit, the building burned down. *shrug* At least there's no more termites."

www.austinchronicle.com

Lethal Weapon

FBI's use of tear gas questioned at Branch Davidian trial.
www.austinchronicle.com www.austinchronicle.com
Three months and six days after the U.S. signed the convention, the FBI used CS on the Branch Davidians.
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FAQs | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS

www.pbs.org
Teargas related fire stories:


This is one of my favorite lines from BSG.
88129e9dd83e323a0b98972e7fbe92cc.jpg
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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We may never know what started the fire.

We may never know their true motive.

> FBI NPC poster on page 2
 
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Hoss

Hoss

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ronne said:
Yea yea yea I get it, government agencies bad.

I'mm not saying tear gassing a building full of children was the right call, but if you think for a second that the outcome of all this wasn't exactly what the dude wanted when he started stockpiling weapons and brides then I don't know what to tell you.
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Is everyone who likes guns and pussy looking for a standoff with the FBI or is there some other difference between me and koresh?

Khane said:
Not sure you understand how these cults work if you think he, as the leader, would just "go to town" by himself and make it easy to arrest him. They make their followers do anything that might expose them. They don't leave. And the problem is even people who want to defect can't. They are held their against their will.
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There ya have it folks. This wasn't a cult because Koresh regularly left the compound alone. Cause that's how cults work.
 
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Khane

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Yea yea yea... I concede the point.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Series was worth a watch. Acting was quite good. Surprised some of the posts here haven't heard of Waco?

Ruby Ridge > Waco > Oklahoma City

Three events Americans should know.
 
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Gavinmad

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Sanrith Descartes said:
Series was worth a watch. Acting was quite good. Surprised some of the posts here haven't heard of Waco?

Ruby Ridge > Waco > Oklahoma City

Three events Americans should know.
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McVeigh would be a folk hero if he'd stuck with his original plan of murdering Lon Horiuchi instead of bombing a bunch of random innocents.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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Very much that. The 3 names et al that he had would have put him on the "right" side of history.

Even he admitted he fucked up.
 
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Zapatta

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I cant watch that shit, I met Bo Gritz and later Randy Weaver. The fact the Clinton government got away with Ruby Ridge and went on to do Waco is in the top 3 reasons the Boogaloo should have happened when I was in my 20s.
 
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Lithose

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Locnar said:
This series makes the ATF look very very bad.
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What's funny is the people I know who don't know much about what happened there, all suspected the series might have been biased against the ATF because it really does make them seem really bad. And its true, it does. The shocking thing is the series actually softens up how utterly incompetent and malicious the ATF actually was. (Not intentionally, but just having to summarize events automatically makes you miss some of the sheer stupid they had to cut out.)

For example, the show makes it seem like the cease fire was due to the phone call...But in reality, the ATF shot at the house for 2 hours and ran out of ammo, and then had to ask for a cease fire to escape. It was pathetic (And they brought a FUCK ton of ammo).
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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the thing that resonated with me most is the scene with the negotiator where he is realizing the FBI isn't this credible, honest white knight. I kept thinking, oh just wait about 25 years and then you will really cry.
 
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Zapatta

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Lithose said:
What's funny is the people I know who don't know much about what happened there, all suspected the series might have been biased against the ATF because it really does make them seem really bad. And its true, it does. The shocking thing is the series actually softens up how utterly incompetent and malicious the ATF actually was. (Not intentionally, but just having to summarize events automatically makes you miss some of the sheer stupid they had to cut out.)

For example, the show makes it seem like the cease fire was due to the phone call...But in reality, the ATF shot at the house for 2 hours and ran out of ammo, and then had to ask for a cease fire to escape. It was pathetic (And they brought a FUCK ton of ammo).
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Did they show the ATF taking off the front door and hauling it away to a warehouse to sit next to the the Ark of the Covenant so the evidence they shot first was gone forever? There were actual photos of them wrapping it in plastic and hauling it away.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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Zapatta said:
Did they show the ATF taking off the front door and hauling it away to a warehouse to sit next to the the Ark of the Covenant so the evidence they shot first was gone forever? There were actual photos of them wrapping it in plastic and hauling it away.
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Hauling thermite tainted bricks and concrete away from 911 ground zero comes to mind.
 
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goishen

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It started when prohibition started, if I'm correct. And then never stopped.
 
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Rombo

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If you wanna be mad after watching tv, go for this. Loved the acting of the guy playing Koresh.

I was watching chernobyle at the sametime with the wifey, and the similarities, for the control of information / the media by the state, are nuts for 2 countries so different. How can morons reach such high positions of power will always suprise me. And am not talkin about Koresh even tho he was far from a saint.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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Synopsis; ATF said we gon' kill dat boi

before the siege was even ordered.
 
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