Weight Loss Thread

The Master · Mar 20, 2014

Tripamang_sl said:
I'm on a medication that's a diuretic already, so there wasn't much to lose in terms of water weight. I'm actually a little concerned on how quickly the pounds are dropping off, the physical transformation in the last week has been pretty dramatic. The shape of my face is night and day compared to when I started.

I snack pretty heavily on nuts already, but it'd be great if there was something similar in consistency to bread that I could eat. I've tried some recipes using almond flour but I generally find the end result to taste overly greasy and generally "empty" tasting compared to bread.

It is expensive, but macadamia nuts ground down into flour make a very good bread. Can google recipes for it.

The Master · Mar 20, 2014

Itlan_sl said:
What exactly is the advantage of going keto? Like, what is the purpose?

And does it include fruits and vegetables as part of its carb intake? Cause 25-50g of carbs is not a whole lot...

When you are in ketosis your body literally burns fat, or rather broken down bits of fat called ketones, instead of sugar. In addition to requiring more energy to make this work, to break down the fat into ketones, it causes a shift that makes your body start using your fat reserves. And your body doesn't store any excess (it actually can't), so any excess fat you literally just pee out. That is how the ketone testing sticks you pee on work. The objective, especially during the beginning of a ketogenic diet, is to completely deplete your glycogen reserves so your body will switch over. This is what causes that lethargic, foggy feeling when you first start keto. Once you are in ketosis however, you can eat carbs so long as you don't eat so many your body switches back over to using sugar. You really need to test your blood to track this and figure out what will and won't knock you out of ketosis. The cheapest I've found the blood test strips is like $1 per strip, so daily testing is pretty pricey. I do it every three days now that I am established in my routine. Also fat just takes more time to digest, so a lot of people feel more satiated for longer on keto diets. Since the #1 reason people struggle with diets is feeling hungry all the time, that makes a big difference.

It doesn't count insoluble fiber. Everything else that is carbs counts.

@BoldW: Nothing wrong with protein powders (so long as they are actually protein, some brands add fillers). Protein has no benefit over a certain point, but you have to eat nearly triple that for it to potentially cause harm in an otherwise healthy person with two kidneys who drinks enough water. But certain people who make their living selling fitness programs and are not doctors or scientists occasionally recommend exactly those levels of excess.

The Myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal Protein Intake for Bodybuilders

There you go. Optimal amounts, references to the actual relevant studies.

Gravel · Mar 20, 2014

There's no difference between them. People will cry about how it's not complete or whatever, but that would be assuming your entire diet consisted of nothing but protein powders. As long as you're eating other foods to fill out your micro-nutrient needs, go all out with protein powder.

Frequently people will say they're not "real food" while ignoring the fact that it comes from fucking milk.

Khane · Mar 20, 2014

Why waste money on that shit? It's cheaper and more satisfying to actually eat the protein. Most people who drink protein shakes need to take a step back and ask themselves if they are getting ANY benefit whatsoever from that extra protein intake. For most people, the answer is no.

But that's just like... my opinion man.

McCheese · Mar 20, 2014

Is it really cheaper to eat all your protein? Chicken can be pretty expensive, and you need a ton of it if you're solely getting protein through your food without any protein powder.

I can't be bothered to figure out my costs, but I'm almost positive that I save a fair amount of money by getting some of my protein via protein shakes.

Itlan · Mar 20, 2014

The Master_sl said:
When you are in ketosis your body literally burns fat, or rather broken down bits of fat called ketones, instead of sugar. In addition to requiring more energy to make this work, to break down the fat into ketones, it causes a shift that makes your body start using your fat reserves. And your body doesn't store any excess (it actually can't), so any excess fat you literally just pee out. That is how the ketone testing sticks you pee on work. The objective, especially during the beginning of a ketogenic diet, is to completely deplete your glycogen reserves so your body will switch over. This is what causes that lethargic, foggy feeling when you first start keto. Once you are in ketosis however, you can eat carbs so long as you don't eat so many your body switches back over to using sugar. You really need to test your blood to track this and figure out what will and won't knock you out of ketosis. The cheapest I've found the blood test strips is like $1 per strip, so daily testing is pretty pricey. I do it every three days now that I am established in my routine. Also fat just takes more time to digest, so a lot of people feel more satiated for longer on keto diets. Since the #1 reason people struggle with diets is feeling hungry all the time, that makes a big difference.

It doesn't count insoluble fiber. Everything else that is carbs counts.

@BoldW: Nothing wrong with protein powders (so long as they are actually protein, some brands add fillers). Protein has no benefit over a certain point, but you have to eat nearly triple that for it to potentially cause harm in an otherwise healthy person with two kidneys who drinks enough water. But certain people who make their living selling fitness programs and are not doctors or scientists occasionally recommend exactly those levels of excess.

The Myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal Protein Intake for Bodybuilders

There you go. Optimal amounts, references to the actual relevant studies.

Okay, I definitely see the pros to ketosis, but is it any better than eating a 50/30/20 routine? Or a 50/25/25? Etc.

I've read ketosis is advantageous for those approaching or under something like 8-12% body fat. So, professional bodybuilders who want to get under that essentially, no? It will make no difference in my ability to pack on lean muscle whether I'm in ketosis or I'm not, correct?

Itlan · Mar 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Why waste money on that shit? It's cheaper and more satisfying to actually eat the protein. Most people who drink protein shakes need to take a step back and ask themselves if they are getting ANY benefit whatsoever from that extra protein intake. For most people, the answer is no.

But that's just like... my opinion man.

I used to take a shake as breakfast... because FUCK eggs.

Khane · Mar 20, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
Is it really cheaper to eat all your protein? Chicken can be pretty expensive, and you need a ton of it if you're solely getting protein through your food without any protein powder.

I can't be bothered to figure out my costs, but I'm almost positive that I save a fair amount of money by getting some of my protein via protein shakes.

How much protein do you honestly think you need to eat? And no, chicken is not expensive. I can get a 4lb whole chicken for like 5 bucks at a local meat market.

McCheese · Mar 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
How much protein do you honestly think you need to eat? And no, chicken is not expensive. I can get a 4lb whole chicken for like 5 bucks at a local meat market.

I don't really know how much protein I should eat, but 4lbs of chicken wouldn't last me long at all, especially if that's an entire chicken (i.e., bones, meat, skin). I'd have to buy a few of those a week. Anyway, it's moot because I don't have a local meat market. I've got three shitty, expensive chain supermarkets. I can buy a cheap tub of protein powder at Walmart for like 16 bucks that lasts me a month. There is no way I'm going to get that same amount of protein for that price from real food.

*Edit* And that's not even factoring in the time aspect of it. The prep and cooking time required alone make it worth it to use protein powder in addition to food. This is especially true if you have to debone the chicken. I use a huge protein shake as a meal replacement at the moment, which means I'd have to prepare 5 extra meals a week which I really don't have time for.

There's nothing wrong with protein powder and in some cases it just makes more sense than going the pure food route.

Itlan · Mar 20, 2014

I buy packs of chicken from Perdue. 12 breasts, usually like $26 for 10 pounds.

McCheese · Mar 20, 2014

Itlan_sl said:
I buy packs of chicken from Perdue. 12 breasts, usually like $26 for 10 pounds.

That's basically what I buy. I guess maybe I just eat more than a lot of other people? 10 pounds of chicken breasts doesn't last me long at all.

Itlan · Mar 20, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
That's basically what I buy. I guess maybe I just eat more than a lot of other people? 10 pounds of chicken breasts doesn't last me long at all.

I usually buy a pack a week, give or take.

Khane · Mar 20, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
I don't really know how much protein I should eat, but 4lbs of chicken wouldn't last me long at all, especially if that's an entire chicken (i.e., bones, meat, skin). I'd have to buy a few of those a week. Anyway, it's moot because I don't have a local meat market. I've got three shitty, expensive chain supermarkets. I can buy a cheap tub of protein powder at Walmart for like 16 bucks that lasts me a month. There is no way I'm going to get that same amount of protein for that price from real food.

*Edit* And that's not even factoring in the time aspect of it. The prep and cooking time required alone make it worth it to use protein powder in addition to food. This is especially true if you have to debone the chicken. I use a huge protein shake as a meal replacement at the moment, which means I'd have to prepare 5 extra meals a week which I really don't have time for.

There's nothing wrong with protein powder and in some cases it just makes more sense than going the pure food route.

The point I'm making as far as expenses go is protein powder is a supplement to your diet. You're equating the cost of protein powder vs the cost of chicken you are likely going to buy anyway. Unless you really do get all of your protein only from powder.

The amount of protein you need to build muscle and gain strength is grossly exaggerated by the supplement and fitness sectors. Supplementing your protein intake is something most normal adults really do not need to do.

There is a lot of extremism surrounding all of this. McCheese, with the amount of food you eat I can almost assuredly say you do not need to supplement your diet in any fashion. When I see people come into this thread who are looking to lose 50, 60, 100lbs talking about how they have started to go to the gym and bought a big tub of protein powder for their workout routine I shake my head. People who are that overweight can eat 2500 to 3000 calories and still lose weight, especially if they are exercising. And if you are eating that much chances are you absolutely do not need any supplement. I also wonder why some people claim that if somehow if you don't take these protein supplements when you have THAT much weight to lose your going to lose muscle before fat. Your body just doesn't work that way. So yes, it is a waste of money for almost everyone here who wants to lose a good portion of their body weight to buy and use protein powder.

The Master · Mar 20, 2014

Itlan_sl said:
Okay, I definitely see the pros to ketosis, but is it any better than eating a 50/30/20 routine? Or a 50/25/25? Etc.

I've read ketosis is advantageous for those approaching or under something like 8-12% body fat. So, professional bodybuilders who want to get under that essentially, no? It will make no difference in my ability to pack on lean muscle whether I'm in ketosis or I'm not, correct?

A healthy, balanced, diet is going to be better than what most people eat. Keto just has specific advantages. It started out as an anti-epilepsy diet. Apparently excess carb consumption causes, very minor, inflation in tissues and getting rid of that inflammation completely helps with not having seizures. There are anecdotal reports of it helping with stuff like allergies, etc., as well, which, again, tie into inflammation of various kinds.

Keto won't cause your body to cannibalize muscle, correct. And yeah, it is advantageous to anyone who wants to lose fat, be it obese guys or body builders trying to get into single digits.

McCheese · Mar 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
The point I'm making as far as expenses go is protein powder is a supplement to your diet. You're equating the cost of protein powder vs the cost of chicken you are likely going to buy anyway. Unless you really do get all of your protein only from powder.

The amount of protein you need to build muscle and gain strength is grossly exaggerated by the supplement and fitness sectors. Supplementing your protein intake is something most normal adults really do not need to do.

There is a lot of extremism surrounding all of this. McCheese, with the amount of food you eat I can almost assuredly say you do not need to supplement your diet in any fashion. When I see people come into this thread who are looking to lose 50, 60, 100lbs talking about how they have started to go to the gym and bought a big tub of protein powder for their workout routine I shake my head. People who are that overweight can eat 2500 to 3000 calories and still lose weight, especially if they are exercising. And if you are eating that much chances are you absolutely do not need any supplement. I also wonder why some people claim that if somehow if you don't take these protein supplements when you have THAT much weight to lose your going to lose muscle before fat. Your body just doesn't work that way. So yes, it is a waste of money for almost everyone here who wants to lose a good portion of their body weight to buy and use protein powder.

I agree with all that. I was just questioning the cost savings. In my case I use a protein shake as a meal replacement and it is a massive chunk of my daily protein, probably a third or even more. If I were to eat food to make up that lost protein it would be way more expensive.

But yes, I see what you're saying now.

Gravel · Mar 20, 2014

My main concern with keto is that my dad died from type 1 diabetes. I'm 30 now, so I won't likely ever get it, but it scares the fuck out of me that it could kill me. So I say fuck keto.

Fifey · Mar 21, 2014

Khane_sl said:
The point I'm making as far as expenses go is protein powder is a supplement to your diet. You're equating the cost of protein powder vs the cost of chicken you are likely going to buy anyway. Unless you really do get all of your protein only from powder.

The amount of protein you need to build muscle and gain strength is grossly exaggerated by the supplement and fitness sectors. Supplementing your protein intake is something most normal adults really do not need to do.

There is a lot of extremism surrounding all of this. McCheese, with the amount of food you eat I can almost assuredly say you do not need to supplement your diet in any fashion. When I see people come into this thread who are looking to lose 50, 60, 100lbs talking about how they have started to go to the gym and bought a big tub of protein powder for their workout routine I shake my head. People who are that overweight can eat 2500 to 3000 calories and still lose weight, especially if they are exercising. And if you are eating that much chances are you absolutely do not need any supplement. I also wonder why some people claim that if somehow if you don't take these protein supplements when you have THAT much weight to lose your going to lose muscle before fat. Your body just doesn't work that way. So yes, it is a waste of money for almost everyone here who wants to lose a good portion of their body weight to buy and use protein powder.

So many times this, I wish I could give nets you glorious bastard. My roommate who is 6foot 230-240lbs drinks like two protein shakes a day cause he just started working out and needs the protein, bro.

I've become a fatty this last week and avoided the gym to try and let my hand heal up some but I traded out going to the gym for binge drinking and eating ice cream. Feelsgoodman.

Ossoi · Mar 21, 2014

The Master_sl said:
The Myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal Protein Intake for Bodybuilders

There you go. Optimal amounts, references to the actual relevant studies.

Except none of those studies were done on subjects in ketosis - when you reduce carbs you have to increase protein if you want to build muscle

Itlan_sl said:
I've read ketosis is advantageous for those approaching or under something like 8-12% body fat. So, professional bodybuilders who want to get under that essentially, no? It will make no difference in my ability to pack on lean muscle whether I'm in ketosis or I'm not, correct?

I would say it's the opposite - the leaner you are the better you can handle carbs so this is when you would start reintroducing carbs to pack on muscle. If you want to lose body fat and put on muscle then carb cycling is the way forward...limit carbs on non training days and eat carbs postworkout.

Khane · Mar 21, 2014

Your protein intake can remain the same as someone who is not in ketosis as you can increase your carb intake to match the extra calorie deficit you create from working out (and still remain in ketosis). In fact most/all keto diets recommend increasing carb intake when exercising, not protein.

Tripamang · Mar 21, 2014

I'm 10 days into my keto diet, I've lost 16lbs. The first couple days I was losing 2.5/lbs per day (water weight), now it's been a steady .8-.1.0lb/day. The main reason I'm fat now is stomach issues I have where my body will have severe hunger pangs/acid reflux when I get hungry which drives me to over eat to make them go away. Literally 2-3 hours without eating and it becomes quite painful, it's been an ongoing thing for years and my doctor has finally given me a referral to a specialist but that's another story (Go Canada health care). With the keto diet I don't get those same hunger pangs, I get fuller much quicker and it's literally hard to over eat.

Most meals for me are some mixture of green veggies cooked in butter/olive oil coupled with a moderate amount of protein. I don't get hungry for breakfast, I snack on some nuts during the day and I usually have to remind myself to eat meals now. The only part that sucks is social settings and trying to eat out with friends, but barring that my sugar cravings have dropped to virtually nothing now. It's really a diet that can work wonders if you can stick with it, but social situations can make it very difficult.

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