Weight Loss Thread

Squats and deadlifts are my two favorite exercises of all time

I'm getting an ultrasound on Monday, suspecting inguinal hernia =/ I think I caused this last year (was active duty USMC). I vaguely remember seeing the lump and thinking ("well if that doesn't go away I'll go see a doc"). It went away and I thought nothing of it until recently. My best guess is that my squat/DLs got heavy enough to cause re-injury. I had no idea what a hernia even was (thought it was similiar to an ulcer) until I stumbled across someone talking about it on a fitness thread and I thought "holy shit, I have that". I got super demoralized because I always took proper form very seriously, but after some reading, it sounds like some men are just predispositioned to get one eventually and lifting heavy things frequently just accelerates the process. Fortunately, its a common surgery and people usually come back 99 percent from it.

Another reason I don't squat or deadlift heavy!

Had surgery for a hernia when I was 16, my left nut was the size of a softball on New Year's Day. I'd had it for a couple years at that point, it became an issue when I hit puberty and started growing. It's been 100% since, no issues. Some guys are just born with a congenital defect that can be exposed by heavy lifting, or just shows up on it's own. Lots of male babies are born with hernias.

McCheese_sl said:

Another reason I don't squat or deadlift heavy!

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Meh, people can hurt themselves doing mundane things or active things. Many people return to squats/DL after hernia surgery and surpass their previous records -- the issue is primarily genetics. When the balls drop, sometimes they leave a weakness in the ab wall.

I've come to associate a proper gym day with either squats OR deadlifts -- I really can't fathom feeling productive and abstaining from those lifts. I don't see the point in squatting light, why not just go do cardio... progressive overload is instrumental in building mass and if it doesn't feel challenging then are you actually progressing in your goal or are you just mentally masturbating because you worked up a sweat and can tell other people "yea I lift".

Eidal_sl said:

Meh, people can hurt themselves doing mundane things or active things. Many people return to squats/DL after hernia surgery and surpass their previous records -- the issue is primarily genetics. When the balls drop, sometimes they leave a weakness in the ab wall.

I've come to associate a proper gym day with either squats OR deadlifts -- I really can't fathom feeling productive and abstaining from those lifts. I don't see the point in squatting light, why not just go do cardio... progressive overload is instrumental in building mass and if it doesn't feel challenging then are you actually progressing in your goal or are you just mentally masturbating because you worked up a sweat and can tell other people "yea I lift".

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Well, you're right, of course, about building mass. However, not everyone is concerned with building mass.

Cad_sl said:

If you're working out primarily to get lean/aesthetics and don't really care about "building mass" then squatting and deadlifting heavy is unimportant.

And those exercises do run significant risk of injury. Granted, they are good exercises. But substituting in other things to work those groups will work (less effectively, but will work) the same muscle groups without the serious risk of injury.

If you really want to "get strong" and be able to pick up heavy things, go right ahead. I'm not a goddamn furniture mover and I don't care about getting big. I just want to get lean and have some muscle so I don't look like a marathon runner.

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The thing about squats/deadlifts is they are some of the best compound exercises you can do and are generally a full-body exercise. I understand being afraid of injuring yourself, but even going light-moderate on squats/dead/cleans will give you amazing results.

Noodleface_sl said:

The thing about squats/deadlifts is they are some of the best compound exercises you can do and are generally a full-body exercise. I understand being afraid of injuring yourself, but even going light-moderate on squats/dead/cleans will give you amazing results.

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This. Honestly if those three exercises were the only ones you did you would see results. Start light to perfect your form and make sure you are stretched and hydrated well before doing them and it is unlikely you will run afoul of injuries.

Most people I have seen hurt themselves (on squats in particular) is because rush to heavy before they have the form down.

Form is really important, watching guys rolling their backs forward during squats is heart-wrenching.

Yep, or only going down half way (i.e., not actually going the full range of motion). You are much better off doing your 80% or whatever your program is calling for with a full range of motion than trying to stack on more weight and only half-assing how deep you go.

I kinda suck at cleans so am not in a position to comment on how often I see them getting screwed up.

Cad_sl said:

If you're working out primarily to get lean/aesthetics and don't really care about "building mass" then squatting and deadlifting heavy is unimportant.

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Getting lean is reducing your body fat. This is done in the kitchen and with self-restraint.

What do YOU mean by aesthetics? Most people think of aesthetics as "being lean with respectable muscle mass". You seem to imply that via a whole bunch of [something], the muscle remains the same size but will transform under the skin into a more visibly appealing shape? I'm not trying to sound condescending, but this is not true. Mass = aesthetics... its just when people say "building mass", other people interpret that as chasing after a roidbeast bodybuilder look. This is the same exact fallacy that makes a lot of women abstain from barbell lifting -- the look that they fear is A) not easy to do and B) simply impossible for women without drugs.

Deadlifts and squats are phenomenally efficient exercises at building mass//aesthetics, and you aren't going to do a few squats and wake up the next day looking like roided-out bodybuilder.

Cad_sl said:

And those exercises do run significant risk of injury.

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The bench press is far more dangerous than any other compound lift. People give zero fucks about their rotator cuff.

EDIT: I'm totally fine with someone saying : ("Look man, I'm kinda lazy and I don't want to learn how to do shit like that. I look pretty good naked, I don't care about strength, and I like working out on the machines because I can zone out.") That's a valid perspective -- squats and deadlifts aren't magical, they're just typically more efficient.

Eidal_sl said:

Getting lean is reducing your body fat. This is done in the kitchen and with self-restraint.

What do YOU mean by aesthetics? Most people think of aesthetics as "being lean with respectable muscle mass". You seem to imply that via a whole bunch of [something], the muscle remains the same size but will transform under the skin into a more visibly appealing shape? I'm not trying to sound condescending, but this is not true. Mass = aesthetics... its just when people say "building mass", other people interpret that as chasing after a roidbeast bodybuilder look.

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You can buildsomemass doing light squats, like what I do with medicine balls. For example, I'm at the point where I'm very happy with the amount of muscle I've built, so I'm simply concerned with maintaining it while cutting away the fat around it. I have no interest in further developing the size of my legs, so there isn't any reason to squat heavy.

*Edit* I don't think anyone is saying to completely ignore exercises like squats. I believe what Cad is saying, and what I agree with, is thatheavysquats aren't necessary unless you're really trying to bulk up a lot of going for pure strength. You can develop respectable muscle by doing lighter squats.

I don't believe Eidal is saying they are essential either, just that they are highly efficient. Point we are both driving to is that if you want to maximize yours time at the gym (or more to the point minimize the time you need to spend there vs. doing other crap), squats and deadlifts are the some of the best ways to spend your time.

Honestly if you are just looking to burn off fat it is honestly all about diet. Does cardio and lifting help? Sure, but you can lift or do cardio for hours and it won't help you a bit if your diet is way off point

Speaking of bench press being dangerous, I saw two guys today using a thumbless grip while benching 225. I don't understand why so many people do that, as it seems needlessly risky.

Eidal_sl said:

What do YOU mean by aesthetics? Most people think of aesthetics as "being lean with respectable muscle mass". You seem to imply that via a whole bunch of [something], the muscle remains the same size but will transform under the skin into a more visibly appealing shape? I'm not trying to sound condescending, but this is not true. Mass = aesthetics... its just when people say "building mass", other people interpret that as chasing after a roidbeast bodybuilder look. This is the same exact fallacy that makes a lot of women abstain from barbell lifting -- the look that they fear is A) not easy to do and B) simply impossible for women without drugs.

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Agree completely, and I almost called out McCheese a few posts ago (post 4859) to ask him what exactly he meant by mass. I think he was falling into that idea that there's a difference between muscle and mass, when there isn't (but I'm pretty sure I knew what he meant).

As far as thumbless grip, I heard someone recently say that because of how the thumb works, the likelihood that it's going to somehow catch that bar is ridiculous and that your fingers should be able to have the strength to keep the bar in place. I don't buy that, but I'd be curious if anyone has seen anything scientific that actually supports either viewpoint. I've seen several people at my gym go thumbless as well and it freaks me the fuck out.

Oh, and also from Eidal's post you mentioned the rotator cuff and bench press. The reason people screw up their rotator cuff during bench press is from bad form. It's from trying to bench press in a straight line over the shoulder joint which causes shoulder impingement. That shoulder impingement slowly cuts the rotator cuff, severing it. If people would learn to bench with their humerus at about a 45 degree angle from their body (and thereby bringing the bar lower on their chest), there'd be a lot fewer injuries.

Speaking of, I hate the idea of offering people advice in the gym (and I never do), but I gotreallyclose to doing it this past Saturday. I saw a guy bench pressing with the bar sitting at the base of his fingers, and he also had his forearm bent backwards towards his head from his humerus (basically almost like the top position of a reverse curl). First, it just looked painful with his wrists carrying a ton of the load from his bench press. But second, he was struggling a ton trying to lift the weight. I really just wanted to go over and tell him to keep his forearm under his wrist and it'd make his life so much easier. But people don't want advice, so I don't give it.

Elurin_sl said:

Agree completely, and I almost called out McCheese a few posts ago (post 4859) to ask him what exactly he meant by mass. I think he was falling into that idea that there's a difference between muscle and mass, when there isn't (but I'm pretty sure I knew what he meant).

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I meant muscle. I simply used "mass" because that was the term Eidal used, if I remember. Doesn't really matter.

My point was that if I can increase my muscles to a size I'm happy with by squatting a light (for me) weight, why should I keep increasing the weight? Not everyone is interested in continuing to increase the size of their muscles beyond a certain point, and not everyone is interested in increasing strength or seeing lift numbers go up. If you're satisfied with how you look and have no further goals beyond that, I don't see any reason to move into insanely heavy weights and increase the risk of injury.

Everyone has different goals and motivations, and while squatting heavy is a main component for lots of them, it doesn't mean it's something that everyone wants/needs to do.

McCheese_sl said:

Speaking of bench press being dangerous, I saw two guys today using a thumbless grip while benching 225. I don't understand why so many people do that, as it seems needlessly risky.

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They probably heard about it from some dude whose cousin read it in a muscle and fitness

Noodleface_sl said:

They probably heard about it from some dude whose cousin read it in a muscle and fitness

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The sad thing was that one of the guys was clearly a newb (super scrawny, didn't really know what he was doing) and his buddy was showing him that this was the correct way to do it.