Weight Loss Thread

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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
Ya for me it's not really breads or pasta, but rice and baked potato's are killer and something I constantly struggle with. For years I'd start my morning with a banana and a yogurt - easy, cheap and on the go but I've weened myself off the banana's and have replaced that with apples/mango/whatever's in season. I still drink/eat yogurt on occasion.

My go to mid week dinner has been eggs and bacon and it's satisfying assuming I make 3-4 eggs, but now that my wife is pregnant, our shit has been completely turned upside down. She's craving pizza, baked potato's all sorts of shit we don't regularly eat and she's developed an aversion to steak which is pissing me off. The smell even makes her want to puke.... I might actually buy that guys book as the video was really informative and interesting - the German science and research going the way of the dodo was fascinating to me and makes me wonder what else was lost post WWII

Gary gets shit on a lot because people misrepresent his views. Also, he doesn't do himself any favors by saying CICO is bogus in interviews and in print, when in his longer discussions he talks about it being not the whole picture. He definitely has a very rigorous attitude towards research and the evidence it yields, though, which is why I really like him.

Good luck staying on a good diet during pregnancy, though. It is even worse with small kids. You become the trash can for all their uneaten foods. I hate wasting food, due to a poor upbringing, so it was especially difficult for me to stop eating my kids' leftovers.
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
I agree with you about blaming carbs for all our problems is silly. I'm 36 years old, spent my late teens and all of my twenties eating whatever the fuck I wanted, and was skinny the whole time. I have great genetics when it comes to diet, apparently. Constant diet experimentation, though, has shown me that I function best on keto/low-carb diets. I feel better, I think better, I'm regular, I have no weight issues, and I'm not hungry most of the time. All of that is effortless. Carb loading fucks me up, though. Clearly, though, a large and growing number of people who do not have that same luxury (through some combination of diet and genetics) and also are increasingly dying from weight-related issues are looking for ways to not just lose weight but get healthier overall and the science of the day all points to cutting excess sugar and carbs to do it.

I disagree with you about keto diets being flawed. Most of them focus on eating vegetables as much as possible, they just steer you to ones that are colorful and not carb heavy. Also, I don't see anyone making the point that eating only sugar at a caloric deficit will make you obese. It will fuck you up royally, though. The problem isn't just the sugar and carbs themselves, though I'd argue that most of the research shows your body doesn't process them in a healthy way, but the general impossibility of eating a diet consisting of mainly those things while remaining at a caloric deficit. If you can do that, more power to you. Most people can't, and the obesity epidemic proves it.

Did you watch that video? My favorite slide in it is the one with the anti-obesity diet from the 1950's. It says you can eat as much of you want of all green vegetables and all fruits except bananas and grapes. I tend to agree with the idea that sugar is our biggest problem, but mainly added sugars, processed sugars, and refined carbs. Having fruit in your diet isn't going to make you obese, but added sugar certainly will.

I really can't be arsed, this topic has been done to death here and elsewhere

but added sugar certainly will

I recently switched from cutting weight/body fat on 10-12 calories per lb (1600-1920) to trying to gain muscle on approx 2500 calories, I went from 40g carbs to 255 on rest days and 280g carbs on training days - the extra 25g was coming from a carb powder aka pure sugar that I was drinking during my workouts.

Started on the 18th October at 73.5kg and since then my weight has stayed the same and that's despite increasing my calories slightly (via upping fats), on Saturday it actually dipped to 72.7kg

Sugar doesn't make you fat. Eating surplus calories (which is easy to do via sugar because it's moreish and sugary foods aren't dense) and not exercising enough makes you fat.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
I really can't be arsed, this topic has been done to death here and elsewhere



I recently switched from cutting weight/body fat on 10-12 calories per lb (1600-1920) to trying to gain muscle on approx 2500 calories, I went from 40g carbs to 255 on rest days and 280g carbs on training days - the extra 25g was coming from a carb powder aka pure sugar that I was drinking during my workouts.

Started on the 18th October at 73.5kg and since then my weight has stayed the same and that's despite increasing my calories slightly (via upping fats), on Saturday it actually dipped to 72.7kg

Sugar doesn't make you fat. Eating surplus calories (which is easy to do via sugar because it's moreish and sugary foods aren't dense) and not exercising enough makes you fat.

Oh, so you're going to be a dick about it now? Okay, we can do that.

How about you show me any evidence that excess fat or protein causes insulin resistance? No? Okay, give me any study that shows better overall health outcomes for a diet high in carbs and sugar vs a low carb one. I'll wait.

Why don't you explain to us why, prior to your bulk cycle, you were only eating 40g of carbs a day. That is an extremely low carb diet by any measure. Seems like practicing what you preach isn't all its cracked up to be.
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
Oh, so you're going to be a dick about it now? Okay, we can do that.

ROFL what a fucking snowflake

The topic has been done to death, I'm sorry that hurt your feelings.

This thread even has @Himeo who makes regular appearances just to say how evil carbs are

Carbs don't make you fat and that's all that needs to be said

LOL, so take your straw man points and go circle jerk with all the other keto zealots on r/keto

Www.Instagram.com/ptheledge yep sugar is really making him fat
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
ROFL what a fucking snowflake

The topic has been done to death, I'm sorry that hurt your feelings.

This thread even has @Himeo who makes regular appearances just to say how evil carbs are

Carbs don't make you fat and that's all that needs to be said

LOL, so take your straw man points and go circle jerk with all the other keto zealots on r/keto

Www.Instagram.com/ptheledge yep sugar is really making him fat

Whelp, you got me. Pictures of one dude who eats like shit, has great abs, and whose only job is to look good is certainly the kryptonite to all arguments against sugar. You sure are good at this.

Have fun eating like shit while you bulk and then returning to a low carb maintenance diet when you want to look good, despite all the bullshit you spout.
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
Whelp, you got me. Pictures of one dude who eats like shit, has great abs, and whose only job is to look good is certainly the kryptonite to all arguments against sugar. You sure are good at this.

Have fun eating like shit while you bulk and then returning to a low carb maintenance diet when you want to look good, despite all the bullshit you spout.


Thanks for proving my point you complete fucking imbecile: "impossible, people are too invested in their own viewpoint to have a logical discussion."

I mean, look at how quickly this degenerated all because I didn't want to have a keto discussion for the 500th time or watch your shitty video of "muhhh ketoscience".

Yeah I get it, you've popped your nose in here for the first time and acted like you're fucking Galileo dropping science bombs on all us flat earthers. Newsflash, you're not, we've seen, heard and read it all before.

P.S

As explained in the weightlifting thread that was an extreme cut which involved moving my post workout carbs to scheduled carb refeed days, so wrong again.

And lol at "eating like shit", so just because someone is eating 280g carbs is "eating like shit"? Even though I track my macros and workout 4 x a week? I guarantee $100 I'm in better shape than you, the proof is in the weightlifting thread
 

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
6,918
4,315
If sugar alone made you fat I'd be 500 pounds, because I subsist on a diet of pizza rolls, Doritos, and bacon egg and cheese biscuits.

I think we should discuss slimfast shakes. That's a discussion worth having.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
Thanks for proving my point you complete fucking imbecile: "impossible, people are too invested in their own viewpoint to have a logical discussion."

I mean, look at how quickly this degenerated all because I didn't want to have a keto discussion for the 500th time or watch your shitty video of "muhhh ketoscience".

Yeah I get it, you've popped your nose in here for the first time and acted like you're fucking Galileo dropping science bombs on all us flat earthers. Newsflash, you're not, we've seen, heard and read it all before.

P.S

As explained in the weightlifting thread that was an extreme cut which involved moving my post workout carbs to scheduled carb refeed days, so wrong again.

And lol at "eating like shit", so just because someone is eating 280g carbs is "eating like shit"? Even though I track my macros and workout 4 x a week? I guarantee $100 I'm in better shape than you, the proof is in the weightlifting thread

Says it is impossible to have a discussion because people are too invested in their viewpoint, then refuses to discuss the issue maturely because he is too invested in his own viewpoint. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're a hypocritical asshole. I tried to have a discussion in good faith and your answer was:

"I really can't be arsed, this topic has been done to death here and elsewhere"

So acting like a martyr on this topic makes you look an idiot.
 

Kiroy

Marine Biologist
<Bronze Donator>
35,324
102,347
Have ya'll gone over the gut flora / fauna and it's possible relation to weight gain / loss (among other things). Wife and I have been taking in a lot more krouhts/ kimchi's / plain yogurts over the past couple years. We're at our target weights but we're always trying to hone our habits especially as we get into our 40s and start getting older.
 
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Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
Says it is impossible to have a discussion because people are too invested in their viewpoint, then refuses to discuss the issue maturely because he is too invested in his own viewpoint. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're a hypocritical asshole. I tried to have a discussion in good faith and your answer was:

"I really can't be arsed, this topic has been done to death here and elsewhere"

So acting like a martyr on this topic makes you look an idiot.


You tried to have a discussion even after I said at the very beginning it was pointless then you get upset because I still didn't want to. <--I'm sorry that me saying "keto debates are pointless" was too hard for you to grasp

If you can't even grasp such a simple concept then clearly high level nutrition and advanced body composition strategies are beyond you, lol
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
If sugar alone made you fat I'd be 500 pounds, because I subsist on a diet of pizza rolls, Doritos, and bacon egg and cheese biscuits.

I think we should discuss slimfast shakes. That's a discussion worth having.

I think the discussion worth having is how much genetics contributes to your ability to process carbs and whether or not insulin resistance is the real culprit behind the health epidemic that is ongoing. Research is coming out that children of diabetic mothers are much more likely to be diabetic later in life than those born to non-diabetic mothers. How much of that is nature and how much is nurture? Is there a way to determine insulin resistance likelihood and combat it early? That shit is interesting.
 

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
You tried to have a discussion even after I said at the very beginning it was pointless then you get upset because I still didn't want to. <--I'm sorry that me saying "keto debates are pointless" was too hard for you to grasp

If you can't even grasp such a simple concept then clearly high level nutrition and advanced body composition strategies are beyond you, lol

You can keep being a disingenuous cunt about how this argument went all you want, it is clear to anyone reading this thread what happened.

If you don't want to have the conversation, stop fucking replying. No one will be sad.
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
You can keep being a disingenuous cunt about how this argument went all you want, it is clear to anyone reading this thread what happened.

If you don't want to have the conversation, stop fucking replying. No one will be sad.

It's also clear to everyone reading how many times keto has been done.

I mean fucking lol, I even have keto in my fucking signature
 

Springbok

Karen
<Gold Donor>
9,386
13,903
Have ya'll gone over the gut flora / fauna and it's possible relation to weight gain / loss (among other things). Wife and I have been taking in a lot more krouhts/ kimchi's / plain yogurts over the past couple years. We're at our target weights but we're always trying to hone our habits especially as we get into our 40s and start getting older.

There is no doubt some correlation there. I've got horrible GERD/Reflux and have been on PPI's/antacids for 5 years or more. It's absolutely destroyed my intestinal/stomach bacteria and I'm only now getting it back under control with probiotics etc. When it's "out of balance" or whatever my weight is different, my energy levels are completely screwed up and my gym sessions aren't as fulfilling. Think that video Liquid posted earlier touches on that as well slightly. It's an interesting topic, and the bad bacteria loves carbs and sugar so there is probably some correlation
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
So what do you guys think of Gary Taubes?

Bad sugar or bad journalism? An expert review of “The Case Against Sugar”.

Conclusion

Science is imperfect, and scientists are as well. Pioneers such as John Ioannidis, Brian Nosek, Vinayak Prasad, Adam Cifu, Chris Chambers, and David Allison are making a good faith effort to identify flaws in the scientific process and address them. Journalists have an important role to play here as well, by helping to identify problems and raising awareness about how to fix them. Taubes also views science as flawed, but primarily where it disagrees with his personal beliefs. Rather than contribute to the solution, Taubes adds to the problem by promoting an unscientific thought process that systematically excludes opposing evidence.

To answer the question posed in the title, refined sugar is bad, although not the singular cause of all humankind’s ills. A core principle of journalism is the accurate, objective, and complete transmission of pertinent facts to the reader. The Case Against Sugar is a journey through sugar history and science that is heavily distorted through the lens of Taubes’s personal beliefs. By this metric, it is not journalism, but advocacy. To a general audience that has little basis for evaluating its claims, the book will be misleading. Yet for readers who are willing to take The Case Against Sugar with a case full of salt, it does contain some interesting history.

Alan Aragon also got into it with him; they had a debate which I think is available on Youtube. His post-debate comment:
It wasn't even an actual debate. It was Gary hypothesizing without supporting research, then me presenting a metric shit-ton of research supporting my position, followed by Gary flippantly dismissing and denying said shit-ton of research. Gary should have approached the debate very differently. The overwhelming consensus was that he got his ass handed to him. I personally was VERY disappointed in Gary's lack of decorum. He consistently ran way over his time slots, and interrupted me several times during my opening statement, which was very time-sensitive. It was very insulting to the audience, moderator, and of course me. To top things off, he admitted to me that even if NuSI research refuted his position, he likely wouldn't change his current opinions. So, in essence, he's not swayed by evidence. Bottom line is that he made a bad impression on everyone.

My perspective on this: you can't launch a new product/brand/book and sell it to fat people if your message is: EAT LESS FOOD. Most fat people already tried that but got shitpumped by their own lack of discipline and crushing addiction. If only someone else had a plan that didn't involve EATING LESS FOOD...

Men like Taubes may be true believers, or they may be snakes... look at what they're selling and to whom.
 
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LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
5,043
11,886
Bad sugar or bad journalism? An expert review of “The Case Against Sugar”.

Conclusion

Science is imperfect, and scientists are as well. Pioneers such as John Ioannidis, Brian Nosek, Vinayak Prasad, Adam Cifu, Chris Chambers, and David Allison are making a good faith effort to identify flaws in the scientific process and address them. Journalists have an important role to play here as well, by helping to identify problems and raising awareness about how to fix them. Taubes also views science as flawed, but primarily where it disagrees with his personal beliefs. Rather than contribute to the solution, Taubes adds to the problem by promoting an unscientific thought process that systematically excludes opposing evidence.

To answer the question posed in the title, refined sugar is bad, although not the singular cause of all humankind’s ills. A core principle of journalism is the accurate, objective, and complete transmission of pertinent facts to the reader. The Case Against Sugar is a journey through sugar history and science that is heavily distorted through the lens of Taubes’s personal beliefs. By this metric, it is not journalism, but advocacy. To a general audience that has little basis for evaluating its claims, the book will be misleading. Yet for readers who are willing to take The Case Against Sugar with a case full of salt, it does contain some interesting history.

Alan Aragon also got into it with him; they had a debate which I think is available on Youtube. His post-debate comment:
It wasn't even an actual debate. It was Gary hypothesizing without supporting research, then me presenting a metric shit-ton of research supporting my position, followed by Gary flippantly dismissing and denying said shit-ton of research. Gary should have approached the debate very differently. The overwhelming consensus was that he got his ass handed to him. I personally was VERY disappointed in Gary's lack of decorum. He consistently ran way over his time slots, and interrupted me several times during my opening statement, which was very time-sensitive. It was very insulting to the audience, moderator, and of course me. To top things off, he admitted to me that even if NuSI research refuted his position, he likely wouldn't change his current opinions. So, in essence, he's not swayed by evidence. Bottom line is that he made a bad impression on everyone.

My perspective on this: you can't launch a new product/brand/book and sell it to fat people if your message is: EAT LESS FOOD. Most fat people already tried that but got shitpumped by their own lack of discipline and crushing addiction. If only someone else had a plan that didn't involve EATING LESS FOOD...

Men like Taubes may be true believers, or they may be snakes... look at what they're selling and to whom.

I'm open to opposing research. Seriously. But regardless of Taubes' behavior and views, none of these guys has addressed the giant elephant in the room. Five decades of telling people to count calories, reduce fats, eat more whole wheat and grains, and limit protein has led to a worldwide obesity and diabetes epidemic. Heart disease is also the number one killer and on the rise. In addition to that, they haven't addressed the fact that people in the West who eat low-carb, high-fat diets have better outcomes across the board in all but one category (high LDL cholesterol) than people on any other diet. I say this not to be combative, but to question how they say that there are mountains of evidence against Taubes' assertions while offering no real solutions to the very real problem.

I'm also open to the fact that there are people who just won't (or can't) put down the fork and go get some exercise. This has been my default assumption for most of my adult life. At the same time, I believed in the heart healthy diet and did my best to eat low fat foods, eat lean protein, and avoid dietary cholesterol. That landed me with high blood pressure and borderline high cholesterol numbers as a 30 year old man with 12% body fat who worked out at least 3 times a week. As that got worse when I got married, had kids, and lost the freedom to workout whenever I wanted I decided to try something different that I had laughed at 10 years earlier, low carb/high fat. Lo and behold, now I'm 36 without the ability to work out consistently but have my best blood pressure, cholesterol, and triglyceride numbers in a decade and weigh the same as I did in college, a bit less actually. I understand this is anecdotal, but it flies directly in the face of all health guidelines we've been given since before I was born. If Taubes is a charlatan then that is fine. Where are the respected food and health scientists that are researching and explaining this? Instead, they continue to insist that it is all a myth and that it is bad for us. Of course we're going to turn to guys like Taubes, who are at least offering up an explanation for what we see with our own eyes and experience contrary to the currently held wisdom.
 

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
6,918
4,315
One big problem that exists right now is that the vast majority of people can't (or don't) make a distinction between weight loss and health.

When it comes to weight loss, literally all that matters is calories in vs. calories out. It doesn't matter what people like Taubes claim about how different macro nutrients are processed, etc. etc. When it comes to health, sure, that stuff is super important. However, it seems most people (no one in particular in this thread, just speaking generally) take the information they hear from people like Taubes about how a calorie isn't a calorie as it pertains to health and apply that to weight loss, where it absolutely does not belong.
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
Five decades of telling people to count calories, reduce fats, eat more whole wheat and grains, and limit protein has led to a worldwide obesity and diabetes epidemic.

.

reeeee Your logical fallacy is false cause

yes it's definitely the above advice/foods that makes people obese and not the huge availability of processed junk and calorie surplus that are responsible.

Dear god, 24 hours later and you still can't come up with a coherent argument
 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754
And lol : Chris Gardner strikes again!



Weight loss on low-fat vs. low-carbohydrate diets by insulin resistance status among overweight and obese adults: a randomized pilot trial (Gardner et al., 2015)

To make a long story short, insulin sensitive patients randomized to the low fat diet lost about 20% more weight than those randomized to low carb. Read that sentence again (just the part in bold).

Insulin sensitive dieters lost more weight on a high carb diet than a low carb diet (10.4 vs 8.6 kg). Insulin resistant dieters lost more weight on low carb (9.6 vs 7.4 kg). Notably, of all four groups, the most weight was lost on a high carb diet (10.4 kg) despite low carbers consistently getting more protein.


Don’t be a science denier!


 

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,713
8,754



CICO and rant

"The new Taubes video is great; he is undoubtedly aware of Chris Gardner’s epic work but fails to address this critical point.

CICO isn’t really wrong unless “CI” assumes we can actually accurately count calories and “CO” is interpreted as exercise. No one is arguing that Low Carb breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics; when people lose weight on a low carb diet, it’s because fewer calories were consumed than were expended. The point is, for obese IR on LC this happens spontaneously and requires no knowledge of CI or CO. Does it work for everybody? …well, sort of, but some do better on Low Fat <- FACT."