Asshat wormie
2023 Asshat Award Winner
- 16,820
- 30,968
Just trying to elevate the discussion a bit. Talking about what can be read on any food label is kind of dull.
- 1
Weight Loss Thread
- Thread starter Sean_sl
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
No. That's not how it works at all.
If you have a food with 5g "carbs" (digestible sugars and starches), 10g fiber (indigestible sugars and starches which are still chemically carbohydrates, mostly cellulose), that is 15g Total Carbohydrates (5 + 10 = 15) but only 5g carbs that counts towards ketosis targets (15 - 10 = 5 if you start from the total, hence the idea of "net carbs"). If you add 5g sugar then you've just added 5g sugar and now you have 20g Total Carbohydrates ( 5 + 10 + 5 = 20) and 10g carbs towards your threshold (5 + 5 = 10 counting up, or 20 - 10 = 10 net counting down from total).
I'm not trying to be insulting with the math, just be clear about the accounting mechanisms.
Last edited:
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 27,195
- 15,325
OK it sounds like your going in circles. I think you just backtracked on the last answer. It sounds like you are now saying it is not possible to have more fiber than carbs. Yet when I just asked that you said for our purposes it is possible. Were you thinking net? I know I didn't say total but I thought it should have been obvious since the question was whether all fiber is also a carb.
- 1
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 27,195
- 15,325
Here ya go.
Ok, one more time and then I give up.
From a strict perspective of chemistry, fiber is a carbohydrate (made of C, H, O). Under that formal definition, you cannot have more fiber than carbohydrates. HOWEVER. When discussing human foods, "carb" is a shorthand that refers only to DIGESTIBLE carbohydrates, which excludes fiber. In that sense, your carb count is always less than or equal your carbohydrate count.
Think of "carbohydrates" and "carbs" as two different words. It's a little sloppy if you want to get pedantic, but MOST people seem to juggle the ideas without issue.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 27,195
- 15,325
Does that apply to how foods are labeled? The one you posted earlier had 37 grams of total carbs and 4 grams of fiber. Are you just being pedantic because I didn't spell out carbs? If so, fuck off. Please don't answer. I'll wait for sanrith.
I thought I had a eureka moment when it dawned on me that maybe the fiber number could never be higher than the carb number and tried to ask you guys about it but your answers have been going back and forth.
- 1
It had 37g total carbs (both digestible and indigestible), of which 4g were fiber (indigestible), 12g were sugars (digestible), and by deduction the remainng 21g were other starches (digestible). The only thing Sanrith is saying is that the 4g fiber doesn't count towards his ketosis target because it's indigestible. The idea of "net" just means total minus fiber equals everything else, in this case 37 - 4 = 33 = 12 + 21.
I promise you they haven't.
- 2
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Hoss
im gonna try another approach. Forget hypotheticals like "more fiber than carbs". Just ignore that thought exercise.And for the moment lets stick to veggies since protein has zero carbs and fruit tends to have more carbs than is allowed to maintain the ketosis state.
Focus on the veggies' total carbs per serving. It will be X. Now below it on the little nutrition sticker will be fiber (this is short for insoluble or dietery fiber). You cant digest this. Since we are talking about only veggies, they dont have an added sugar. Lets call fiber Y.
Subtract fiber from total carbs (x-y) to get the carbs that your body will digest. This is commonly called net carbs. To enter and stay in ketosis you generally want this to be under 25g a day.
Now the reason you are losing weight just monitoring total carbs is because you can still cut weight not being in ketosis. If you eat 35g of total carbs a day, you will most likely lose weight. But you will not be in the ketosis state. Ketosis will have your body breaking up triglycerides (long term fat storage) while you are losing weight. The non-ketosis version doesnt allow this added bonus.
Does that make sense?
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Now I am going to throw caution to the wind and talk about sugar alcohols. They are a chemically created sugar substitute made from sugar. These sweeteners are chemically far enough away from sugar (ala sucrose) that your body soesmt recognize them as sugar(sucrose). Thuse no insulin reaction.
These sugar alcohols (common names include Xylitol or Erythritol) are used to sweeten prepackaged items instead of adding sugar. Similar to dietary fiber, sinxe you body doesnt treat them like sugar/sucrose, you cant subtract the grams of sugar alcohols from the total carbs in something.
Example this product uses glycerine (aka glycerol) (a sugar alcohol).
So 15g total carbs - 8g dietary (insoluble) fiber - 4g of glycerin = 3g of net carbs or 3g of carbs your body ia going to digest. From a biology perspective your body is only digesting 3 carbs.
These sugar alcohols (common names include Xylitol or Erythritol) are used to sweeten prepackaged items instead of adding sugar. Similar to dietary fiber, sinxe you body doesnt treat them like sugar/sucrose, you cant subtract the grams of sugar alcohols from the total carbs in something.
Example this product uses glycerine (aka glycerol) (a sugar alcohol).
So 15g total carbs - 8g dietary (insoluble) fiber - 4g of glycerin = 3g of net carbs or 3g of carbs your body ia going to digest. From a biology perspective your body is only digesting 3 carbs.
Animosity
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 7,042
- 5,936
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 27,195
- 15,325
Jesus Christ you fucking people keep answering questions I didn't ask. You made me do my own fucking research and for that, fuck you. I was all ready thank you for teaching me something new, but now you get a hearty fuck you.
and
The simple answer to my simple question is YES. Why is that so goddamn hard? Instead I get shit like this as an answer.
Up till now I thought net carbs was a cheat people were abusing to eat more carbs than they should. You gotta admit, when you look at things like that bread you linked
Sanrith Descartes
, it looks like a cheat. Like, the fiber was supposed to scour the carbs out of your system or something.
and The simple answer to my simple question is YES. Why is that so goddamn hard? Instead I get shit like this as an answer.
Up till now I thought net carbs was a cheat people were abusing to eat more carbs than they should. You gotta admit, when you look at things like that bread you linked
Sanrith Descartes
, it looks like a cheat. Like, the fiber was supposed to scour the carbs out of your system or something.
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Sanrith Descartes
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
- 44,495
- 120,665
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
- 27,195
- 15,325
I'm more than happy to teach you how to shit properly. But it doesn't belong in this thread.
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,932
- 23,479
Keto did help out when I decided to try to un-trainwreck my body, not because it was magical, but because it was easy as shit to manage, and when you're trying to fix a half dozen habits/problems with your life at once (which the kind of people I mostly see go on keto are, since it's usually someone looking in the mirror and going "Jesus fuck what is my life") reducing the mental load of individual habit changes helps reduce the chances of going "this is all overwhelming, fuck it I'm out." just grab a fist sized chunk of meat, maybe a slice of cheese, and a bag of steamed veg and you're done planning your meal. Greens and meat have much more consistent physical size to calorie equivalents.
I would have probably gotten better results with a measured out balanced meal planning, but when I was changing eating behavior, exercise behavior, and career field at the same time, I was thankful for the simplicity
I would have probably gotten better results with a measured out balanced meal planning, but when I was changing eating behavior, exercise behavior, and career field at the same time, I was thankful for the simplicity
- 2
- 1