chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
- 17,324
- 4,839
Dude, I hope you're still looking, this place sounds like a shitshow. If you get in that's awesome, milk it for every bit of knowledge you can and bounce. But damn dude.
What do you do?
- Thread starter Alkorin
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Brand
Molten Core Raider
- 1,159
- 313
You know the answer...It is the bane of any sensible manager's existence - Process and HR. You will follow the Process and HR will ride herd and make you want to go insane.
Brand
Molten Core Raider
- 1,159
- 313
It isn't that HR makes the value calls...Often in corporate world, everything a Manager does is run through a Process...The gatekeeper on the Process in the case of Hiring is typically HR. You can end run if you want, but that can bite you in the ass...HR can be some petty fucking bureaucrats if they want. It isn't as bad as Government hiring, but I'm currently in a German owned company and PROCESS is king there...They fucking live for it.
Crone
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 9,714
- 3,211
No surprise after all the bull shit but found out a few minutes ago that I didn't get the job. I was over ruled by the director that's outta Texas even though everyone here thought that it would of been a great fit. Director said that there's a lot of projects coming up and he doesn't feel that there's enough time to be able to train me and bring me up to speed.
No reason to keep a secret anymore. It was with Frontier Communications, a FIOS isp that's slowly taking over Verizon's FIOS business. Within a few days they are taking over Florida California and Colorado, so their customer base is about to more than double. I suppose the projects he's talking about have to do with that.
No reason to keep a secret anymore. It was with Frontier Communications, a FIOS isp that's slowly taking over Verizon's FIOS business. Within a few days they are taking over Florida California and Colorado, so their customer base is about to more than double. I suppose the projects he's talking about have to do with that.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,364
- 16,256
Sorry to hear man, on the bright side it may be a blessing. Take what you learned and keep trucking.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
- 17,324
- 4,839
That's completely fucked that they put you through that and dicked you around for weeks and then didn't hire you. I am legitimately pissed off for you.
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,762
- 2,643
I like the all day interviews were you go from office to office and shoot the shit with all the employees. The part where they find out if you're qualified should be done by HR before you even get there. At my old job the actual interview day was more about whether you would fit in with the rest of the team than trying to find out what you know. Asking people to pull random technical details out of their ass is the most useless thing you can do in an interview.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
- 17,324
- 4,839
Yeah I understand that type of thing, still sucks but really it's better for all involved. Doing a 2.5 hour technical interview a month into the process? That's silly.
And the manager's reason is silly too. Even experienced people will have to be trained before they are effective on their network. HUMBUG.
iannis
Musty Nester
- 31,351
- 17,657
Yeah, that's a shitty process Crone. It's not just that they're dicking you around. You gotta expect to get dicked around a little bit, and like Cad said there's nothing wrong with that. If the job istooeasy to get you need to really consider not taking it. Because if they throw it at you (especially off the street) that means some potentially very bad things by itself.
That's a shitty process because they're wasting a lot of their own time. And if they're about to double their workload they might not have that time to waste. Or they might. Whatever, it's their business. It does sound a bit like there were some politics there. Somebody hadn't cleared it before they gave you the impression it was being offered.
A situation like that all you have to do is say, "Well. If it were up to me you'd start next week. It's not up to me though, I'll run it up the flagpole with my recommendation." That works even if you have no intention of hiring the guy.
You do have to realize that the answer is either yes or no, the answer is never maybe. That's not about this situation here, really. That's just a daily fact of life in any job. Only accept maybe if you cannot accept no. If no is a good enough reason to walk, and if you plan ahead -- then make the fuckers say it.
That's a shitty process because they're wasting a lot of their own time. And if they're about to double their workload they might not have that time to waste. Or they might. Whatever, it's their business. It does sound a bit like there were some politics there. Somebody hadn't cleared it before they gave you the impression it was being offered.
A situation like that all you have to do is say, "Well. If it were up to me you'd start next week. It's not up to me though, I'll run it up the flagpole with my recommendation." That works even if you have no intention of hiring the guy.
You do have to realize that the answer is either yes or no, the answer is never maybe. That's not about this situation here, really. That's just a daily fact of life in any job. Only accept maybe if you cannot accept no. If no is a good enough reason to walk, and if you plan ahead -- then make the fuckers say it.
Crone
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 9,714
- 3,211
I do feel it's a pretty cluster of a company. I was told the process all along, and was told that if I get to the in person technical interview / meet the team, that I should know they want me, and are just making sure I jive with the team. But then I get to it, and 2 of the 3 people that should be there, are not. One manager is on vacation all week, and the other dude works 6am-2pm, and the interview was set for 3:30pm.
It would have been great experience to get into a job at an ISP. Got get much more network experience than that, but I'll find something else. Chin up! Onward and upward!
As soon as I let some people know that this job fell through, I should have some interviews lined up at other places. The downside to one of those jobs is that it involves a move to the Seattle area, from Portland, and is always on contract. There is no chance of permanent hire, so the cushy corporate benefits are off the table.
It would have been great experience to get into a job at an ISP. Got get much more network experience than that, but I'll find something else. Chin up! Onward and upward!
As soon as I let some people know that this job fell through, I should have some interviews lined up at other places. The downside to one of those jobs is that it involves a move to the Seattle area, from Portland, and is always on contract. There is no chance of permanent hire, so the cushy corporate benefits are off the table.
Eomer
Trakanon Raider
- 5,472
- 272
My interview process for plumbers consists of the following:
-Did the applicant show up? Was he on time?
-Does he have a driver's license and vehicle to get around in?
-Does he have the basic tools?
-Can he answer half a dozen questions about his past experience in construction or plumbing?
-Does he appear to not be mentally retarded, or on drugs?
If he passes that strenuous gauntlet of vetting, he gets hired. Then roughly 25% of them don't show up for the first day of work. Of those that do, roughly 50% make it past the first week or two without getting fired for not showing up/being useless or quitting because they are pussies. If they jump over those massive hurdles in the first week or two, then generally they stick around.
I used to bother with a longer interview and picking from multiple candidates who I thought would work out best. But what I've discovered is that it's basically impossible to predict who will make a good, reliable, hard working employee based on asking them some bullshit questions. And that's pretty much exactly what empirical studies have shown, as well. The only real way to find out if they're going to be a worthwhile employee is to send them to a site and see if they can hack it. Thankfully our hiring costs are pretty much nil, so it doesn't really matter if our retention rate is 20% or 50% after a month.
I'm sure it's different for more skilled industries, or positions with a more educated talent pool. But there's no interview question that I can ask that will tell me definitively if a guy is going to put up with howling winds laying out sleeves on a form work deck 100' up in a blizzard.
-Did the applicant show up? Was he on time?
-Does he have a driver's license and vehicle to get around in?
-Does he have the basic tools?
-Can he answer half a dozen questions about his past experience in construction or plumbing?
-Does he appear to not be mentally retarded, or on drugs?
If he passes that strenuous gauntlet of vetting, he gets hired. Then roughly 25% of them don't show up for the first day of work. Of those that do, roughly 50% make it past the first week or two without getting fired for not showing up/being useless or quitting because they are pussies. If they jump over those massive hurdles in the first week or two, then generally they stick around.
I used to bother with a longer interview and picking from multiple candidates who I thought would work out best. But what I've discovered is that it's basically impossible to predict who will make a good, reliable, hard working employee based on asking them some bullshit questions. And that's pretty much exactly what empirical studies have shown, as well. The only real way to find out if they're going to be a worthwhile employee is to send them to a site and see if they can hack it. Thankfully our hiring costs are pretty much nil, so it doesn't really matter if our retention rate is 20% or 50% after a month.
I'm sure it's different for more skilled industries, or positions with a more educated talent pool. But there's no interview question that I can ask that will tell me definitively if a guy is going to put up with howling winds laying out sleeves on a form work deck 100' up in a blizzard.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
- 27,477
- 43,698
I agree with you Eomer, however I've found more success now recently trying a few different tricks. I have a few canned questions to ask for obvious red flags, can't avoid that. However what I really look for is detail, communication and maybe even passion or at least interest in explaining their past positions and what they did there. I mean if you work at a place for 7 years and all you can muster is "handled customer relations" then wow.
If they pass that part I explain the role and position in more detail and look for reaction. If it's dead eyes or OKs the entire way through I pass.
No questions means you don't care, don't understand or aren't interested.
What I mostly want though is a spark of interest, personality and to learn why you want the job organically.
If they pass that part I explain the role and position in more detail and look for reaction. If it's dead eyes or OKs the entire way through I pass.
No questions means you don't care, don't understand or aren't interested.
What I mostly want though is a spark of interest, personality and to learn why you want the job organically.
Vinen
God is dead
- 2,791
- 497
This is accurate for the Software world as well.
Just add
- Has a Computer Science or other relevant degree.
Fifey
Trakanon Raider
- 2,898
- 962
So now that I've been at my job for a solid month and things have got rolling, I've got a better feel of pay. My old work I made around 40k a year, this new job I'm working on much lesser types of cars but should be in the 60 to 70k/year. Im also working a second part time job when I feel like it (1099 gig) and should probably do about 10k/year with that.
Not too shabby for someone with a high school diploma and hand tattoo, right?
Not too shabby for someone with a high school diploma and hand tattoo, right?
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 17,319
- 44,963
Maybe it depends on the job, but for a lot of positions I can't imagine anyone still having any passion left after 7 years. And even if we're talking a position where passion can be expected (like people in health care I guess?) I'm not sure how many people aren't going to just lie in response to these kind of questions, or go into 'used car salesman' mode. Unless you're wanting to hire the bullshit artists who view this as an opportunity to blow smoke up asses, I dunno.
Mist
REEEEeyore
- 31,505
- 23,995
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,364
- 16,256
If you guys took a commuter rail into work and say you could work 2 hours a day on the rail, would you subtract that from how long you'd stay in the office everyday?
Everyone keeps saying how I could work on the way in, but I'm not keen on working off hours unless it's crunch time.
Everyone keeps saying how I could work on the way in, but I'm not keen on working off hours unless it's crunch time.