What is your opinion on GMO plants and products?

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BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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Deathwing_sl said:
BrutulTM, it's not simply an attitude, it's the truth. The critical mass required for a third party to make a difference on the state or national level is too large the spontaneously jump start a movement. First past the pole(and various other factors like the electoral college) are the reasons for this. If small amounts of votes could garner small amounts of power, third parties could gain momentum over time. However, without that, you are at least throwing your vote away or helping the greater evil get elected. That's the real kicker. I don't vote Democrat because I love Democrats, Republicans are just batshit crazy(ier) recently. Me voting green peace or whatever might help the more despised party get elected.
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I think I'm throwing my vote away voting for an R or D. I'm past caring which of them wins. Voting for someone I don't support because the guy I do support won't win makes no sense. Right now is as good a time as ever for something to change. Congress's approval rating is like 9% and our last two presidents (one R, one D) weren't much higher but as long as you keep thinking "Oh my god the evil republicans might win and ruin everything if I don't cast my vote for this schill on the other side!" then nothing will change. That is exactly what all the wedge issues and political theater is about. Republicans have to convince their base that the Democrats will tax you at 90%, take away your religion and your guns and force you to turn queer. Democrats have to convince thiers that the Republicans will kill all the minorities and destroy the environment for the good of Monsanto. In reality they are both working for Monsanto (and Oil Companies and Wall Street banks and all the others) and keeping you scared of the other side so both of them get to stay in power.
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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opiate82_sl said:
I got into a Facebook argument about GMO's with my mother-in-law (I know I shouldn't have, but she was wrong on the internet damnit!) over WA's attempt to force GM labeling on food. I provided links to theAMA,AAAS,EUSAC, a25 year EU studythat all say we don't need and shouldn't label as well as stating there is no evidence to dates that GMO's are harmful (for consumption) and pointed out the fact that if she didn't want to buy GM food there was alreadyexisting labelingto allow her to do so.

Rather than maybe citing her own sources to possibly refute mine, she just came at me with the "you don't mess with mother nature" argument, while sitting in her environmentally controlled shelter, while talking on her worldwide communication device, before utilizing the paved trails with her wheeled transportation device to go buy some organic apples.
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I have a couple people on facebook that post that bullshit non-stop. It's a waste to argue with them though, they are not interested in science nor do they care to hear anything that contradicts their views. They *know* that Monsanto is trying to pooooison the childrens and they have to be stopped by posting links to bullshit hippy websites in their facebook feed.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Why does Europe hate gmo? Usually the more liberal/college educated people say Europe has more advanced attitudes on things in general but they ban gmo's? Is it economically motivated?

Both France and Germany have banned gmo

Europe has banned shit before that the FDA still said was safe here like trans fats.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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BrutulTM_sl said:
I think I'm throwing my vote away voting for an R or D. I'm past caring which of them wins. Voting for someone I don't support because the guy I do support won't win makes no sense. Right now is as good a time as ever for something to change. Congress's approval rating is like 9% and our last two presidents (one R, one D) weren't much higher but as long as you keep thinking "Oh my god the evil republicans might win and ruin everything if I don't cast my vote for this schill on the other side!" then nothing will change. That is exactly what all the wedge issues and political theater is about. Republicans have to convince their base that the Democrats will tax you at 90%, take away your religion and your guns and force you to turn queer. Democrats have to convince thiers that the Republicans will kill all the minorities and destroy the environment for the good of Monsanto. In reality they are both working for Monsanto (and Oil Companies and Wall Street banks and all the others) and keeping you scared of the other side so both of them get to stay in power.
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How do you reconcile things like the 2000 Presidential election? Democrats voting third party in swing states basically won the election for Bush. I'm not going to argue which party is shittier because I agree with you that both parties suck, but in that specific instance, there's a clearly better candidate, especially in retrospect.

And what's with the hyperbole on the "evil republicans"? They only have control of the House and are still managing the fuck shit up. Holding the country's credit rating hostage, shutting down the government, restricting women's reproductive and minorities' voting rights on the state level, etc. The Democrats may suck, but there's a clear difference of stratification of suckitude. Maybe it's masterpiece political theater, but they sure look like they're trying to ruin everything.

In that context, voting for someone I don't support because the guy I do support won't win makes all the sense.
 
BrutulTM

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Europe sees GMOs as an American thing. Also, if they ban GMOs their farmers don't have to compete with American imports, but they can pretend that they aren't just putting in trade barriers for their own benefit.

Deathwing - I've said my piece, I'm not going in circles with you anymore.
 
Deathwing

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Then actually say something. We're going in circles because you're stuck on this thought that voting for third parties(non local) actually makes a difference. It doesn't. Our electoral system simply doesn't allow for it. You can't just brush it aside with some platitudes like "now's the time for change!" or "I feel like I'm wasting my vote". If you believe that, you're just as gullible and mislead as the people you're accusing whom think they have to vote R or D.

You want to not go in circles? Prove me wrong about the electoral system. That you voting for Dan Cox actually made a difference.

Or suggest some ways you can magically organize large groups of "independants" to all vote third party in an election. Because I think those people exist, probably more than you or I expect since we internet goers tend to be cynical.
 
T

toomanynames_sl

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Voting in the US is a joke, your vote counts I suppose so long as you're voting a D or R. In the end, it's the money and marketing that wins elections. The US is way too full of stupid. (That said, I vote every time, lemming like :p)

As for GMO's, like many initial ideas, this appears to be a good thing, but with it comes money and power and this is where science fails time and time again. GMO's are the designer drug of horticulturists. They are bad because there are no controls of the thousands of variables. Science is full of themselves and far too often get blindsided. You can what if GMO's in to the ground, however "ifs" in this case won't stop science. Today one can say GMO's are ok and the vision is utopic, however once this is the norm, GMO's will not be ok, and in fact IMO they'll be terrible for society.

For example, has science thought of how GMO's can be used for biological warfare?

I think why GMO's came to be; it wasn't because science could do it, it was because someone saw profit in doing it.

It's one thing for science to take the best of the best and continue to "grow" that, so we get the best corn, yet still natural. GMO's can say, in less time you get the best corn, but the seeds are sterile so you can't plant your own. Or they won't grow without this GMO activation fertilizer, etc.

Isn't that seed stock or whatnot up in the north poll (iirc) a big waste of time because those seeds are completely worthless once GMO's are the norm. Those seeds won't even be usable once GMO proteins invest the soil (ala mad cow protein, hehe, this was an ass pull as it were)

A lot of what I said is a bit tongue in cheek and not meant to be some scientific rebuttal, just opinions.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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It almost seems like a game of chicken, the shitty establishment practically dares you to vote against them and we collectively keep talking ourselves into doing it.
 
N

Northerner

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Conflating Monsanto's business practices with the science of GMOs is annoying.

GMOs are among the most important things that we do, period. It has also been that way for thousands of years. The fear-mongering is annoying.

(Educational background is a BSci but in CompSci and nothing to do with biology at all)
 
E

Eorkern

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fanaskin_sl said:
Why does Europe hate gmo? Usually the more liberal/college educated people say Europe has more advanced attitudes on things in general but they ban gmo's? Is it economically motivated?

Both France and Germany have banned gmo

Europe has banned shit before that the FDA still said was safe here like trans fats.
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Why would France and Germany need GMO ? For us, only corporations need GMO.
 
iannis

iannis

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I would think that it's more about checking the regional influence of Monsanto than it is a scientifically based institutional mistrust of GMO products.

Look at the patent shit they play in the American legal system. If you had the choice of buying into that rigged game, or pursuing your own agenda... which would it be?

That and a sneaky way to subsidize local farming. Which they have every right, and even a responsibility, to do.
 
opiate82

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fanaskin_sl said:
Why does Europe hate gmo? Usually the more liberal/college educated people say Europe has more advanced attitudes on things in general but they ban gmo's? Is it economically motivated?

Both France and Germany have banned gmo

Europe has banned shit before that the FDA still said was safe here like trans fats.
Click to expand...
In my experience, it is the "liberal" people in my area fighting against GMO's. That is what I noticed on my Facebook feed as people went back-and-forth about the labeling issue in WA (same with the voting demographics on the actual measure). Also, environmentalist are also convinced GMO's are harmful to the environment which sways a lot of the "liberal" people there. I have a limited knowledge of the politics overthere but as I understand it environmentalist spearheaded the anti-GMO movement in the EU.

As far as EU, they are backpedalling big time on their GMO policies. Labeling pretty much demonized the technology, nobody was buying GMO labeled food and now they are concerned with economic issues with their food supply as a result. (Generalizations here)
 
Agraza

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Mos def a lot of hyperbolic over-reaction from the hippie wing of the left, which I understand is a powerful part of german culture (conservatism of nature). It's unfortunate. It's a bit like greenpeace being anti-business rather than anti-ecological disaster. They at some point conflated the two things and rather than try to solve problems they kept throwing bricks at anyone making money, alienating the public and undecided actors along the boundaries of their activities.

A part of the over-reaction is the fear that these edited plants will spread far beyond their intended location (they have) and muck up "natural" stuff (they have), and when everything goes to shit (vague fearmongering) we won't be able to go back. Genie, bottle. So far the ecological disasters are negligible and may have occurred regardless of the altered seeds, but the economic and societal disasters have been pretty epic. Of course from Monsanto's perspective those were not problems, but they're evil.
 
Eomer

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GMO foods are to liberals/left-leaning people as climate change is to conservatives/right-leaning people. For whatever reason, both of those issues short circuit a lot of otherwise intelligent people's brains, who let ideology and ignorance replace their rationality and intelligence.
 
Lanx

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most of us have seen the bullshit eps on organic food and gmo's?


might be nsfw, it is a show called bullshit and they do show a pair of boobs here and there.
 
BrutulTM

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I love bullshit. Really wish they would bring that show back.
 
Erronius

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Northerner_sl said:
Conflating Monsanto's business practices with the science of GMOs is annoying.
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This sums it up for me more or less. What I found hilarious is that Monsanto seemed somewhat surprised that they had managed to cultivate such a terrible public image for themselves (almost entirely due to their business practices), and now they want to turn that around.
 
Big Phoenix

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lanx_sl said:
most of us have seen the bullshit eps on organic food and gmo's?


might be nsfw, it is a show called bullshit and they do show a pair of boobs here and there.
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Good thing this is the nsfw section of the forum.

ps all hail the saints
 
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