Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

Samflam said:

Shit I better get in on this!
Prediction: Age of Conan, LOTRO and Warhammer will be released in an incomplete state.
Call me Nostra-motherfucking-damus!
But seriously, alot of people knew that VG was going to release in the state it was, it"s not rocket science. Maybe some were noisier than others, but in the end I guess it all boils down to who cares the most.

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Prediction:
The classes at release of arbitrary MMORPG will not be balanced, several people will roll the obviously overpowered class and complain about being nerfed.

The raid loot of the next MMORPG will be underwhelming compared to loot you can obtain by grouping and will be tweaked downward.

Melees will be underpowered compared to casters as soon as they hit the max level.

The raid game will not be fleshed out or complete for the next MMORPG, and it will be likely horribly imbalanced.

Fanboys and anti-fanboys will herald the new MMORPG as the new coming of EQ. They will insist that their point of view will be the only valid one.

Makata will still be rolling FOTM classes and completely miss the point of the class.

What do I win for all my cutting edge predictions?

Samflam said:

Shit I better get in on this!
Prediction: Age of Conan, LOTRO and Warhammer will be released in an incomplete state.
Call me Nostra-motherfucking-damus!
But seriously, alot of people knew that VG was going to release in the state it was, it"s not rocket science. Maybe some were noisier than others, but in the end I guess it all boils down to who cares the most.

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I see that you didn"t get the point. Utnayan made predictions based on his experience in the past with Brad and SoE and based on screenshots and videos. That"s a totally different scenario in comparison to just predicting something out of the blue.

Neric said:

I see that you didn"t get the point. Utnayan made predictions based on his experience in the past with Brad and SoE and based on screenshots and videos. That"s a totally different scenario in comparison to just predicting something out of the blue.

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Oh I see. So Utnayan was the only person on this board who has played multiple MMO"s? Gotcha. All hail Utnayan The Seer!

Neric said:

I see that you didn"t get the point. Utnayan made predictions based on his experience in the past with Brad and SoE and based on screenshots and videos. That"s a totally different scenario in comparison to just predicting something out of the blue.

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This is not "based on screenshots and videos". Anyone who is not remotely retarded can predict that an MMORPG will have major shortcomings in certain areas. This isn"t being against the grain, being a genius, or being a visionary. This is "not being a retard". I am not advocating that everyone play Vanguard, I am saying that by now, everyone on this board is well aware of Neric/Utnayan/Hiram"s opinion of Vanguard and they don"t care, and you are not uncovering new ground.

Samflam said:

Oh I see. So Utnayan was the only person on this board who has played multiple MMO"s? Gotcha. All hail Utnayan The Seer!

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No, but aparently he was the only person assuming that Brad didn"t change his character. Everyone else obviously expected him to have changed from the Luclin-asshole to Jesus.

Samflam said:

Oh I see. So Utnayan was the only person on this board who has played multiple MMO"s? Gotcha. All hail Utnayan The Seer!

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No, but he was one of the few who was willing to take a shitload of flak from the raging vanboys who were convinced he had never played the game, didnt know what he was talking about and was going to be wrong wrong wrong.

Twobit Whore said:

No, but he was one of the few who was willing to take a shitload of flak from the raging vanboys who were convinced he had never played the game, didnt know what he was talking about and was going to be wrong wrong wrong.

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I am not arguing against his views. I am arguing against his fanaticism, it is completely different.

Gnome Eater said:

This is "not being a retard". I am not advocating that everyone play Vanguard, I am saying that by now, everyone on this board is well aware of Neric/Utnayan/Hiram"s opinion of Vanguard and they don"t care, and you are not uncovering new ground.

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Still you seem to have problems to confess that you were wrong with your judgement and the critics were right. If you don"t want to get reminded, why did you bring it up again?

Also what do mean with fanatism? Do you call your math teacher a fanatic only because he insists against the majority opinion in your class that 2+2=4? To make it clear, the critics had every right to insist on their opinion, because it was correct and the truth doesn"t have to hide nor give in to the mob.

Neric said:

No, but aparently he was the only person assuming that Brad didn"t change his character. Everyone else obviously expected him to have changed from the Luclin-asshole to Jesus.

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Oh cmon now...everyone??
I"m thinking alot of people (on this board) had a general idea how the VG release was going to play out - without the help of such clairvoyance - but only a few treat MMO developers as characters in some kind of bizzare soap opera.

Utnayan said:

Because without the valuation of the all access pass, this game is going to drop faster than Anna Nicole Smith on a 4 pound pile of cocaine in hell.

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Quote of the week right there. I laughed at that one.

Because 2+2=4 is a fact, I like Vanguard/I don"t like Vanguard is not a fact, it is an opinion, who everyone by now is aware of.

I never bought Vanguard, so I am not sure how I was ever wrong. The game is a lot of fun for a fair few of my friends, but it wasn"t what I was looking for, perhaps if I was a college student with a lot more time like during early EQ I might have enjoyed it more.

I agree with a lot of the criticism levelled against Vanguard, mostly on the CPU side of the issue and a few design issues that I disagree with, but a lot of other people enjoy the game because they enjoy exactly what I don"t.

Unfortunately, with my past of being one of the loudest vanbois on this forum. I also have lost my will to play VG... I cancelled my account and will most likely not be returning.

But for me it was more the way the game is being run and the future outlook than the current incarnation of the game (although every single person i started playing with quitting on me had alot to do with it also. out of 8 people who began i was the last survivor)

For people who had supposed MMOG experience they appear as clueless bufoons. Every patch just nerfed my pclass into oblivion from where it started and more and more game mechanics got hit also. Yes, i know any game requires balance; but this has gone way past mere balance with my chosen class the dsc.

I have finally realized they are just continually nerfing and gutting from never having a true beta and just releasing and saying fuck it we will just let the suckers pay for our development from here on out as we have mismanaged the second largest MMOG bugdet in history so badly we have no funds left nor a truly working or balanced game world. (which is truly sad and anyone who invests in brad on a future project is an idiot)

I have played every major MMOG from UO to VG with most of that time being spent on EQ1 so i know how nerfing works. Except for the EQ1 monk mitigation nerf (which was probably EQ1 lowest moment in history and has subsequently been reversed years later by smarter devs) I have never seen anything even close to this level of stupid nerfing.

At least with the monk nerfs it was the items and a couple expansions that had cuased the (supposed) issue. VG just freaking launched there is nothing that has recently happened or any gradual change over time except maybe a head coming out of an ass...

I myself personally, see no future here. They are throwing shit against the wall and seeing what will stick in a early beta fashion. With most all the fun sucked out of the game for me and everyone I know having already left the game to go back to WoW ... I am done.

Yes I know except Tad10 for a long time I was the largest voice for VG. I was wrong... I bought TBC 3 days ago and have returned to my home on Uldum.

Good luck Sigil, you are going to need it.

Sad thing about these latest exp changes and mob difficulty is that even the die hard VG massochists will start to bitch and quit because the game is "too easy" and being made into a WoW clone...

And btw I quit too, but not because the game "sucks" but because of the continual nerfage fest they turned VG into. They have turned a fun game at release into something diffrent and unfun.

Maybe ill check it out in the future when some type of portal system goes in, maybe druids get some ports.

Samflam said:

Oh cmon now...everyone??
I"m thinking alot of people (on this board) had a general idea how the VG release was going to play out - without the help of such clairvoyance - but only a few treat MMO developers as characters in some kind of bizzare soap opera.

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You can be sure that the reaction on this board blew everything out of proportion. Group dynamics on message boards and especially those all-against-one situations can and will lead to bizzare soap operas every once in a while. Blaming just one side for it is simply wrong.

Neric said:

You can be sure that the reaction on this board blew everything out of proportion. Group dynamics on message boards and especially those all-against-one situations can and will lead to bizzare soap operas every once in a while. Blaming just one side for it is simply wrong.

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Fair enough, and to be honest, I love watching the aftermath of releasing such a shoddy product amidst such hype. The words "Brad McQuaid is going to make you his bitch" come to mind
But I think you need to realize that just because people aren"t picketing outside the Sigil offices alongside you (and a few others) doesn"t mean they are blind VG faggots. You really need to give people credit. Looking at the subs only goes to show that speaking with your wallet gets them where it hurts the most.

Utnayan said:

This game fucking sucks. Pure and simple. The 40+ content was not in. The itemization is laughable.

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You know, you need to get new sources. Sure the 40+ content was not in at release, but there are tons of content now. At level 50 I have tons of stuff to do. We have not even started on Necropolis because we just haven"t had the time yet. And the itemization is awesome. Only people complaining about poor itemization are those that are incapable of finding the good stuff without thottbot.

As for the lack or raid content, well I don"t think any guild are ready yet so it doesn"t bother me. Vanguard is heavily dependant on gear and very few guilds are currently capable of clearing Rahz Inkur and it"s only a single group dungeon. Once we are ready for raiding then we will start complaining about the lack of raid content.

Well, I think its safe to say that "The Vision" has become the MMO version of "Mission Accomplished", hehe.

I"m not giving up on Vanguard just yet, however. My nerd rage has yet to reach the boiling point; and if I do give it up, its not going to be because I don"t like the game (because, for its mountain of flaws, I do enjoy it), its going to be because I don"t have the right people to enjoy it with.

Though, it would be miraculous if my VG sub survives LOTRO"s launch.

Mkopec1 said:

Sad thing about these latest exp changes and mob difficulty is that even the die hard VG massochists will start to bitch and quit because the game is "too easy" and being made into a WoW clone...

And btw I quit too, but not because the game "sucks" but because of the continual nerfage fest they turned VG into. They have turned a fun game at release into something diffrent and unfun.

Maybe ill check it out in the future when some type of portal system goes in, maybe druids get some ports.

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Heh, I remember a quote from... Moorgard maybe (could be wrong) in EQ2, where he stated than nerfing is better than buffing, because nerfing requires less work compared to buffing a class and then buff all the others to be on par.

I think Blizzard made a better job here (except for warriors and maybe shamans?), because the feeling has always been "my class patch is incoming! woot!". I"ll never get why nerfs are the way to go, especially in games where feeling overpowered should be cool and fun, not be just another peon who happens to swing a sword or twiddle his thumbs to cast magic farts.

EQ2 learned this the hard way imo, once they stopped promoting the shit of "heroics are not meant to be soloed, if you can, you"ll be nerfed" and various other more specific nerfs (often totally unneeded). They did some steps in the right direction at least, although they are not perfect yet, the feeling of being powerful from the start and increasingly more powerful as you level is there to be experienced.

To hell with nerfs, really...

Samflam said:

Fair enough, and to be honest, I love watching the aftermath of releasing such a shoddy product amidst such hype. The words"Brad McQuaid is going to make you his bitch"come to mind
But I think you need to realize that just because people aren"t picketing outside the Sigil offices alongside you (and a few others) doesn"t mean they are blind VG faggots. You really need to give people credit. Looking at the subs only goes to show that speaking with your wallet gets them where it hurts the most.

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Okay, please don"t tell me they actually used that in some early ad campaign, because if so...
-nearly dies laughing-
So if Brad"s Romero, who"s Carmack?

Itzena said:

Missed this one:

Well, peopledidwant a return to old-school EQ - congratulations! They sodding well got it.

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WoW was my first ever MMO, I played pretty much everyday for 2 years but eventually lost interest. I tried the EQ2 7 day trial which was ok, played CoV a couple months then lost interest with that, I also beta"d LOTRO and I know that game is also not for me. In the last 6 months VG is the only game that I want to play everyday and that is what I have done since beta 4.

The dwindling population in this massive world is what concerns me.