Woodworking

Intrinsic · Jul 10, 2022

Bandwagon said:
Thanks. I think most of it is going to disappear when I plane it down. The graphic artist at work actually helped me with that and this is the first one. She thought the same thing when she saw it.

You guys that have been making stuff for awhile - how do you deal with family and friends asking for stuff? I have about 15 people right now asking if I can make one for them and I keep thinking "I want to actually make these things and sell them to pay for better toys. I can't do 20 fucking freebies or heavy discounts a year".

I also don't want to charge friends and family what it would actually cost when everything gets factored it.

Anyone have a tried and true, gentle way to say that?

Family, if they’re close I have done things for. Like my Mom and Dad close. My fiancé which is basically going in our house and she knows is test stuff for me to learn.

Friends I did that hanging Murphy bar for and will never do anything else for a friend again, very likely. To me it is just like any other sort of business dealing and I really just am not comfortable mixing business and friendship. My time and value are worth something so doing it for free or for material cost is taking from myself. And they’re never going to value the freebie you’ve given them for not charging for your time, experience, tools, frustration, hard work, and everything else. They just can’t it isn’t anything personal against my friends. It isn’t worth it in my opinion.

It is a hobby / small business but my time isn’t free and I’m not running a charity. Honesty is the best policy and I’d say if you aren’t 1,000% comfortable just decline to do it but offer to look for a suitable replacement from Etsy or something.

There are always exceptions but that is my general rule and thinking about it.

whoo · Jul 10, 2022

Intrinsic said:
Family, if they’re close I have done things for. Like my Mom and Dad close. My fiancé which is basically going in our house and she knows is test stuff for me to learn.

Friends I did that hanging Murphy bar for and will never do anything else for a friend again, very likely. To me it is just like any other sort of business dealing and I really just am not comfortable mixing business and friendship. My time and value are worth something so doing it for free or for material cost is taking from myself. And they’re never going to value the freebie you’ve given them for not charging for your time, experience, tools, frustration, hard work, and everything else. They just can’t it isn’t anything personal against my friends. It isn’t worth it in my opinion.

It is a hobby / small business but my time isn’t free and I’m not running a charity. Honesty is the best policy and I’d say if you aren’t 1,000% comfortable just decline to do it but offer to look for a suitable replacement from Etsy or something.

There are always exceptions but that is my general rule and thinking about it.

Bandwagon this is a good take. Materials aren't cheap anymore. And you don't have a full blown process nailed down where the machine is doing 90% of the work. You can be honest. Tell them it's a hobby you're still figuring out and it's all you can do to learn and barely make something functional. "maybe in the future" is good for now, and if they reaaaallllyyyy want something, they will pay you to do it. And maybe by then you'll both be better at it *and* you can make it cheaper (get some profit).

Stick to doing what interests you for now, to keep yourself engaged and learning more. Once you feel like you're ready for clients, offering a deal that's free labor for a few pieces can kickstart word of mouth sales.

Captain Suave · Jul 10, 2022

Bandwagon said:
Anyone have a tried and true, gentle way to say that?

If they're not immediate family I say, "Honestly, I have a lot invested in this gear, and materials are expensive. I'd be happy to do it for you at cost if you like."

And then "cost" is whatever you want, scaled by how much you like them and how much free time you currently have.

Bandwagon · Jul 10, 2022

Thanks

Intrinsic and

whoo . That's the conclusion I've come to lately, but have a tough time telling people that. So far, I've just been saying "I haven't made a single thing I'm proud of yet, so I'm not ready to make stuff for other people yet". But then they always say something like "Oh, that's fine....I'd be happy with what I've seen so far!" and don't know how to get out of it.

Captain Suave said:
If they're not immediate family I say, "Honestly, I have a lot invested in this gear, and materials are expensive. I'd be happy to do it for you at cost if you like."

And then "cost" is whatever you want, scaled by how much you like them and how much free time you currently have.

Thanks Cap. That one sounds like it would work. Resin is stupid expensive anyways, so even at cost these things are probably getting up there in price. I guess I should really price it out soon.

Intrinsic · Jul 10, 2022

On the topic of making things for people. Got my drawers milled up and put together today. Was very exciting when they slid in the dividers and rails almost perfectly. The right one is a little tight so may spend a bit sanding down the spots that stick on the little test jig I cut to slide in them. A little concerned about some movement and also after adding the seal and finish.

Really wanted to glue up a cherry panel for the bottom but just used some oak plywood. Also wanted to finally learn how to do dovetails for the front but just don't have the time at the moment.

Went ahead and started sealing them so I could test the fit again tomorrow and if everything goes well will maybe start doing the frame this week and top at the end of the week.

Bandwagon · Jul 10, 2022

Intrinsic said:
On the topic of making things for people. Got my drawers milled up and put together today. Was very exciting when they slid in the dividers and rails almost perfectly. The right one is a little tight so may spend a bit sanding down the spots that stick on the little test jig I cut to slide in them. A little concerned about some movement and also after adding the seal and finish.

Really wanted to glue up a cherry panel for the bottom but just used some oak plywood. Also wanted to finally learn how to do dovetails for the front but just don't have the time at the moment.

View attachment 421334

Went ahead and started sealing them so I could test the fit again tomorrow and if everything goes well will maybe start doing the frame this week and top at the end of the week.

View attachment 421335

Intrinsic · Jul 10, 2022

Bandwagon said:
View attachment 421336

View attachment 421337

View attachment 421339

Why do you think I cropped the 2nd one so much?!

whoo · Jul 10, 2022

Intrinsic said:
very exciting when they slid in the dividers and rails almost perfectly.

I was so glad you decided to fix the supports so they were parallel to the drawers instead of trying to bodge something to fix it. Personally, I'd have remade the divider, but what you ended up with looks sturdy enough and will be totally unseen. Good job!

Cutlery · Jul 11, 2022

Alright, see ya in a year, log #1.

Also, sitting outside smells fucking amazing now. It ain't no cedar, but it sure ain't bad.

Bandwagon · Jul 12, 2022

Looking for something in the ballpark of 24in x 24in x 2.5in to use as my standard stock for some ideas I'm working on. No thicker than 3in though.

Anyone have ideas in where I can get something like that, or something in that general size? I can rip it down.

If I'm aiming for solid pieces of [whatever] species, are those dimensions putting me into Warren buffet financing territory?

Intrinsic · Jul 12, 2022

Bandwagon said:
Looking for something in the ballpark of 24in x 24in x 2.5in to use as my standard stock for some ideas I'm working on. No thicker than 3in though.

Anyone have ideas in where I can get something like that, or something in that general size? I can rip it down.

If I'm aiming for solid pieces of [whatever] species, are those dimensions putting me into Warren buffet financing territory?

You can probably find 24 in x 24 in stock that isn't plywood or MDF or other, but I guess are you not wanting to glue up panels? And just want a go to panel? At my hardwood store anything over 10in in width gets in to butt rape territory of pricing per board foot. It is much more economical to purchase three 8 in boards and glue them to make a 24 in panel than two 12 in boards.

Going from 8/4 to 12/4 is less of an increase, but still an increase.

Cost wise I don't know the break point between creating your own panels vs. someone else making them and shipping them if you cannot find someone local. Either way you'll be being for it

Cutlery · Jul 12, 2022

Bandwagon said:
Looking for something in the ballpark of 24in x 24in x 2.5in to use as my standard stock for some ideas I'm working on. No thicker than 3in though.

Anyone have ideas in where I can get something like that, or something in that general size? I can rip it down.

If I'm aiming for solid pieces of [whatever] species, are those dimensions putting me into Warren buffet financing territory?

My logs are only about 20 inches after the bark is off, so I guess we're out!

Also, new cylinder here and I took the saw apart. Both rings melted to the piston, so be advised, 40:1 is not suitable for milling.

Need a piston ring compressor for small engines, got that coming tomorrow, before I can put it back together. Might be able to be back in business this weekend again.

Bandwagon · Jul 12, 2022

Intrinsic said:
You can probably find 24 in x 24 in stock that isn't plywood or MDF or other, but I guess are you not wanting to glue up panels? And just want a go to panel? At my hardwood store anything over 10in in width gets in to butt rape territory of pricing per board foot. It is much more economical to purchase three 8 in boards and glue them to make a 24 in panel than two 12 in boards.

Going from 8/4 to 12/4 is less of an increase, but still an increase.

Cost wise I don't know the break point between creating your own panels vs. someone else making them and shipping them if you cannot find someone local. Either way you'll be being for it

Thanks Intrinsic, that's what I was looking for.

I'm not opposed to doing a bunch of stuff myself at all...but I'm working on learning Fusion360 right now and setting up some files for 24in x 24in x 2.5in is what I was doing last night. Since I don't know how to paramaterize (sp?) my files where everything changes if I change the stock size, I just waited something to aim for in the hopes that the files I'm setting up don't become useless later on when I realize the size I was designing around is impossible to get or afford.

There's a nice woodworking store in town that has some great material and I can get whatever the hell I want from them, I'd just like to have the option to do cheap stuff too, without changing the base file (other than tool paths).

whoo · Jul 12, 2022

Bandwagon said:
Thanks Intrinsic, that's what I was looking for.

I'm not opposed to doing a bunch of stuff myself at all...but I'm working on learning Fusion360 right now and setting up some files for 24in x 24in x 2.5in is what I was doing last night. Since I don't know how to paramaterize (sp?) my files where everything changes if I change the stock size, I just waited something to aim for in the hopes that the files I'm setting up don't become useless later on when I realize the size I was designing around is impossible to get or afford.

There's a nice woodworking store in town that has some great material and I can get whatever the hell I want from them, I'd just like to have the option to do cheap stuff too, without changing the base file (other than tool paths).

Just fyi, a 24" wide board would either include the pith (center of the tree) or would come from a 48" wide + tree. It's just not going to happen these days. Maybe in the old days when they were harvesting redwood...

Bandwagon · Jul 12, 2022

You think these topos would look decent if I made them out of Multiple layers of stacked plywood? It would make the contour intervals look cool i'm guessing, but I don't know how that stuff would look stained.

whoo · Jul 12, 2022

Personally, i think it would distract from the effect and it would look like plywood. If you want to try it though, and you need a 2.5 - 3" z height, I'd go with high grade baltic birch or something equivalent where you'll get 11-12 even veneer layers per 19mm (very close to 3/4) sheet and no voids. You'll still have stripes, but they will be more evenly spaced than most other plywood. Are you trying for elevation stripes?

Or you could try cheaper pine plywood and just paint it. Like the ones they have at national parks!

Did you ever think of cutting each elevation separately?

The ideal method for stripes would be to buy your own veneer sheets and glue every 2nd or 3rd sheet with black epoxy (vs clear on the others) and you could get very fine elevation lines. You might need a vacuum veneer press for that

whoo · Jul 12, 2022

Now that I think on it, you'd get a similar result (fairly fine stripes) from the baltic birch. The end grain would be darker naturally so the alternating grain would give you stripes every 16th or so. Even if you used a clear finish. Probably would look fine with shellac if you sanded it. I might try this for giggles. Sorry for going silly with your topic.

Bandwagon · Jul 12, 2022

whoo said:
Personally, i think it would distract from the effect and it would look like plywood. If you want to try it though, and you need a 2.5 - 3" z height, I'd go with high grade baltic birch or something equivalent where you'll get 11-12 even veneer layers per 19mm (very close to 3/4) sheet and no voids. You'll still have stripes, but they will be more evenly spaced than most other plywood. Are you trying for elevation stripes?

Or you could try cheaper pine plywood and just paint it. Like the ones they have at national parks!

Did you ever think of cutting each elevation separately?

View attachment 421680

The ideal method for stripes would be to buy your own veneer sheets and glue every 2nd or 3rd sheet with black epoxy (vs clear on the others) and you could get very fine elevation lines. You might need a vacuum veneer press for that

Layers like that is what I've been limited to with the laser cutter so far. I like that aesthetic as well, but no....I want to move on beyond that stuff. The holy grail for me is embossing map text and features into the realistic 3d topography and filling it with a resin inlay. The idea I had for putting text into the terrain raster layer, with a skirt around it, then engraving once, filling with resin, and then routing it again (this time with the text flush with the terrain) doesn't look like it'll work. Embedding text in the raster layer looks like shit on small detail, and also doesn't let me run it as a separate toolpath. But I just learned what "rest" machining is and that sounds like it'll do the trick, so I'm working on learning fusion360. I have some examples of my small maps I've done with the laser in the CNC thread, though. I personally like this look, but I feel like it's more niche than what I'm working towards.

I'll take your advice and try one in baltic birch ply though. I have plenty of that shit laying around. Maybe I'll work on glueing up a block tonight.

Bandwagon · Jul 12, 2022

Also, sorry for derailing all the time with my cnc obsession stuff. Me haev teh OCD

Intrinsic · Jul 14, 2022

Pretty happy with the sealing process so far. I'm learning a lot about quantity and realized that I used wwaayyy too much for the first coat. Like, way too much.

Using Waterlox Classic. Application has been:

-Sand to 220 (all pieces were sanded prior to assembly and I did a little touch up prior to sealing)
-One coat on
-Wait 15 minutes, wipe excess
-Two coat on,
-Repeat
-Wait 24hrs
-Repeat

So have three coats down and then am finishing with Waterlox Satin. I did do some spot sanding at 400 grit b/c the shop isn't 100%. One coat of Satin and no wiping. Probably going to stop there.

Shop doesn't have the best lighting and the color representation is off from real life, but anyways!

Top still slightly wet in that picture and couldn't get out of the direct overhead LEDs. I was initially really disappointed in the top. As soon as the sealer hit it you could see all the small dings from using the hand plane and my attempts to learn. Really thought most of that had come out with through the sanding process, but not so much. After a couple coats though and it starting to fill in spots and levelize, I'm actually really happy. In retrospect I may have selected a different piece, but I had the one 12" board that I wanted in the middle. It looked close when I was laying it out but stands out a bit with the sealer.

It won't be perfect, but nothing is. Overall so far am very very pleased and I think she'll love it as a wedding gift. 10 more days.

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Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness

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Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.

Bandwagon

Kolohe

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Kill All the White People

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Kill All the White People

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Intrinsic

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