Woodworking

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Captain Suave

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Burns said:
The glue would add enough to keep it from separating like he shows on the one doorframe in his house. The cost of time and resources to make and put that octagonal ring in, still looks like it would be more than the cost of just gluing it, then replacing the whole frame, if its damaged.

Doesn't this video show that gluing end grain joints isn't totally worthless? (think this has been linked here before, dont know how else I would have seen it)


And a follow up video of the glue adds strength, but not close to as much as the various joinery options used/needed in furniture or load bearing applications.
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Yeah, I've seen those. The tests show end grain glue provides more than no strength, but the overall message is easy to misinterpret. End grain glue joints are indeed as strong as the wood side grain, but that isn't actually saying very much. The side grain is very weak compared to the long grain. You'd never design something with the grain alignment below because it would break at the red arrow under the first stress it experienced.

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This is more or less what end grain glue joints provide.
 
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Intrinsic

Intrinsic

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The following caveats apply:

- I'm an idiot
- I'm an idiot electrical engineer with no mechanical engineering background (I think a mechanics class was required to graduate)

The first video was funny when it came out and pretty sure it was posted here because naturally every YouTube woodworker channel had to do some type of response. It is great information but to me seems very specific to the forces being applied to the wood, at the joint, in a specific direction.

In projects that I've built often my concern isn't a directly applied perpendicular force. It is wood movement, swelling, over time and even other pieces in line with or attached. Like a frame and panel door, for instance. The panel may swell or shift which will put pressure on your rail or stile and extend down the direction of the grain to the joint. (I'm skipping the part of leaving space for expansion here)

Or a glue up on a table which is likely side to side or could include a border that has side to end grain, etc.. I can only assume someone is smart enough to not sit 2,000 lb right on that joint.

But mother nature may decide that one board needs to shift 1/16" because of humidity.
 
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Burns

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Captain Suave said:
Yeah, I've seen those. The tests show end grain glue provides more than no strength, but the overall message is easy to misinterpret. End grain glue joints are indeed as strong as the wood side grain, but that isn't actually saying very much. The side grain is very weak compared to the long grain. You'd never design something with the grain alignment below because it would break at the red arrow under the first stress it experienced.

View attachment 433041

This is more or less what end grain glue joints provide.
Click to expand...
I would have thought a 45 degree miter joint, like you have on the door frame molding, would be more akin to the end to end glue up that he showed in his video. The picture you have is what the guy in the second video is talking about, where you need joinery to properly keep it together. Also, we are not talking about much pressure being applied to the wood? I am only comparing it to the seemingly overdone corner of that old house's door frames.

At any rate, I guess I will find out if just glue will do, in a few years, as I just made a speaker "grill" panel, with 45 degree miter corners, for an already existing cabinet, using only glue and bunch of extra molding that was laying around.
 
mkopec

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Yeah that "old way" just seems over complicating a problem that does not exist. Sure it might tighten up those 45 joints but at what expense? Tons of unnecessary labor and time. Taking a 15 min job and turning it into a hour? Like was mentioned those are not structural joints but molding that serves no other purpose than making shit look pretty. Thats why no one ever seen that shit before, its because probably some crew foreman had a stick up his ass and wanted it done his way, im betting the eye rolls from his crew was enough to cause them all a headache.

Come to think of it as I think about this more, this might have come from a factory somewhere or in a shop after they took measurements of all the doors they needed to do. Maybe they were sold as a standard door size trim solution where you just cut the 2 sides to length at the bottom. That seems more feasible than some crew mocking this shit up on the job site. That shape in the back sure seemed like ti was milled by some machine rather than like he mentioned by some drilling process.
 
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Captain Suave

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Burns said:
I would have thought a 45 degree miter joint, like you have on the door frame molding, would be more akin to the end to end glue up that he showed in his video. The picture you have is what the guy in the second video is talking about, where you need joinery to properly keep it together. Also, we are not talking about much pressure being applied to the wood? I am only comparing it to the seemingly overdone corner of that old house's door frames.
Click to expand...

Speaking strictly to the question of glue, the point is that the strength of the glue absent long grain fiber bonds is very weak. The orientation (butt vs miter vs perpendicular) isn't the issue.

None of this really matters for the door casing because that corner isn't load bearing and the only concern is cosmetics. The glue provides no benefits over filler or finer tolerances. Your speakers are fine for the same reason.
 
Burns

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Captain Suave said:
Speaking strictly to the question of glue, the point is that the strength of the glue absent long grain fiber bonds is very weak. The orientation (butt vs miter vs perpendicular) isn't the issue.

None of this really matters for the door casing because that corner isn't load bearing and the only concern is cosmetics. The glue provides no benefits over filler or finer tolerances. Your speakers are fine for the same reason.
Click to expand...
Right, but the whole point of talking about glue was only in relation to using it instead of that metal piece, in the old house, that the dude in the video was so enamored with and musing about how much smarter they were...

...when in fact that metal ring is just obsolete technology used to fix problems we no longer have.
 
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Captain Suave

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Burns said:
...when in fact that metal ring is just obsolete technology used to fix problems we no longer have.
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Right, this is why moulding joints are filled with caulk. It's a better solution than complicated fasteners or glue.
 
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Captain Suave

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Goatface said:
ear protection is all you need, even after sawing up steel lol
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Last rental house I lived in the property manager hired some dude to cut down a half-fallen tree. I shit you not, the guy stood on a ladder directly under the leaning trunk, cutting above his head with the chainsaw, while wearing shorts and sandals and zero PPE of any kind. I had to go wait on the other side of the house because I legit thought he was going to kill himself. Fortunately the idiot got away with a twisted ankle as he jumped off the ladder.

Pretty epic slabs those guys are making, though. The black staining should have clued them in that it was full of metal.
 
Cutlery

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Goatface said:
ear protection is all you need, even after sawing up steel lol
Click to expand...


I thought about doing it that way, but I couldn't find a big enough granberg mill like that anywhere close, and I cut down the tree during the pandemic, so everywhere was out of everything. I love that shit, I definitely made the right call milling out all mine, even though my stuff is much smaller and I'll only get coffee tables and end tables outta mine rather than dining room tables.

I am flabbergasted by them moving those slabs in fucking flip flops though. Straight insanity. I've been wearing steel toes for work for so long that they're the only pair of shoes I own.

Super glad I build my sawmill too. Doing that shit on my knees wouldda been no bueno. One knee surgery is enough.
 
Intrinsic

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I had to get ceramic toe boots for work the last seven years and they’re about the only pair I wear also. Even with a heavy emphasis on safety there’s still the occasional board / sheet slip that I’ve been like Whew! Glad I had those on!
 
Goatface

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pretty odd saw


in real action :)


couldn't find a vid, but 2 people could alternate with them
1664322246169.png
 
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Intrinsic

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Man I need to do another project. Haven't done anything since finishing the desk for my wedding. Got a few ideas just no time.
 
Soygen

Soygen

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Finished up the liquor cabinet. Lots of lessons learned on this project. I feel like it was like 90% coming up with creative ways to cover up mistakes and out of square plywood. That said, I'm pretty happy with the results.

Cabinet is 1/2" plywood. Faceframe is poplar. I finished both with this blue(forget the name) from Blidden. Drawers were 1/2" plywood. The drawer fronts I made out of walnut and just finished with clear(Pure) Rubio Monocoat.


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Cutlery

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All of my walnut appears to be getting lighter (color wise) as it dries. Disappointing. If I didn't know it was walnut, I would question it looking at the stacks outside. Very odd. The firewood didn't do that. Not sure what the deal is.
 
Soygen

Soygen

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Cutlery said:
All of my walnut appears to be getting lighter (color wise) as it dries. Disappointing. If I didn't know it was walnut, I would question it looking at the stacks outside. Very odd. The firewood didn't do that. Not sure what the deal is.
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How light? Send some pics. The walnut I used on these drawers looked much lighter/drier before I finished it. If you spray some water on the walnut, does the color pop back to what it was before? If so, you're all good.
 
Intrinsic

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Soygen said:
Finished up the liquor cabinet. Lots of lessons learned on this project. I feel like it was like 90% coming up with creative ways to cover up mistakes and out of square plywood. That said, I'm pretty happy with the results.

Cabinet is 1/2" plywood. Faceframe is poplar. I finished both with this blue(forget the name) from Blidden. Drawers were 1/2" plywood. The drawer fronts I made out of walnut and just finished with clear(Pure) Rubio Monocoat.


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The poplar frame came out real nice. I couldn’t quite get my frame on the dog crate to smooth out that well and look seamless. Had a lot to do with rushing also but yours is awesome. Also like the drawer fronts. Did you use slide hardware or just wood runners?
 
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