World of Warcraft: Current Year

Same reason that it has been since EQ1: I poop socked hard for this gear, don’t give my epeen to filthy casuals!

Mythic raiders should always crush non-mythic raiders at literally everything they do.

I'll give the exception to very high level arena players as well.

Yeah, fuck raiding. I never understood the whole argument that non-raiders getting some epics is what ruined WoW. There are a million other things that ruined WoW, but I would hardly say a few welfare epics is one of them. I haven't raided since WotLK, but I'd still clock 20-40 hours a week in WoW up until I cancelled a few weeks ago. I know raiders hate anything that isn't raiding related that gives loot, or things that are required to do to boost your ability to raid, but the game really does need shit like this to keep the non-raiders around. These people really are (or were) a majority of players, and when they aren't paying the bills, the entire game including raids are going to go to shit real fast.

I used to do LFR just for the gear sets for all my characters, but gg Ion fucked those too, so I haven't bothered with any of the LFR's even. That and fuck Troll raids. I've always hated them, with Titan raids being my second most hated... ugh. You can get some good pieces without raiding, but it takes much longer to gear out an entire character, than just being a raider. What makes raiders so much more entitled to getting the only good gear? They schedule their lives around a gaming schedule, and then watch a few youtube videos that just give them the strats, to sit around with 24 sweaty nerds just repeating it? If you aren't raiding Mythic raids, it's not some big accomplishment. And it definitely should not make raiders feel entitled to being the only ones getting improvements to their character (gear).

It really does feel though like Ion just decided to pull out every non-raider/non-pvp thing this expansion and just figured that WQ's, Mythic+ dungeons, and rep grinds for more stupid races would be enough to keep casuals around. They banked on Islands and Warfronts which were both steaming piles of shit. Then to top it off, they nerfed xp into the ground so it's not even fun to level alts anymore, which is what I used to spend a lot of time doing. Fuck Ion though. I'm glad the game is burning under him. Maybe they will get rid of him, the sooner the better, before this bitch hits EQ levels of subs and goes into maintenance mode.

There's a lot to do but fact is the game feels like complete shit to play (vs legion) because they gutted every class for no apparent reason.

BFA is probably fucking unbelievable if you're just coming back after a few years. There's an insane amount of content.

Unless you pvp. PvP talents actually make my shaman feel like it's a complete and finished class.

Ronaan said:

Well I might just resub.

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Not going to cut it.

The combat tastes like ass. Your subscription money, you can keep it.

xzi said:

There's a lot to do but fact is the game feels like complete shit to play (vs legion) because they gutted every class for no apparent reason.

BFA is probably fucking unbelievable if you're just coming back after a few years. There's an insane amount of content.

Unless you pvp. PvP talents actually make my shaman feel like it's a complete and finished class.

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Demon Hunter in Havoc spec is in the best place it has ever been. It's super fun to play compared to legion.

don't worry lads I got yet another piece of heroic equivelent loot and this time it was a trinket from doing 3 world (turtle bois) quests

what a videogame

Removing tier sets was a big mistake. They clearly don't understand how important transmog items are to some people. A lot of people like having a unique transmog for their class, but now it is just by armor type which sucks.

I guess I don't really understand the rest of the casual perspective though. What do you want them to add? Legion had class storylines & the mage tower, did these hold your interest? Mounts from paragon chests? Getting gear is arguably easier for a casual in BFA than it was in Legion, so I'm not really sure what you would want.

They have also made levelling much faster recently, so if that was something you enjoyed it is pretty quick now.

I enjoyed class halls, class campaigns, and suramar a lot. I'm currently a massive casual, I don't even run dungeons anymore which is a new thing for me.

Aside from pure gameplay annoyances which everyone (especially me) always point to, one thing I hate the most about BFA is the lack of any sort of class identity that legion had in terms of RP. From campaigns, to little npcs mentioning you, or reacting to you. You can bash RP all you want but being a paladin in Legion, and actually paying attention to the storyline, made it easy for me to visualize myself as being a Highlord of the holy order. Helping and healing the world. Exact same thing with druids, regardless of what was happening in the world - a druid was doing their best to keep the emerald nightmare at bay, and to repairing the wounds that were left as late as 8.0 when the sword stabbed into the fuckin planet.

I know that sounds stupid. But it mattered something to me.

In BFA I kind of like the war campaign story, but I like it for all the wrong reasons. I love Rexxar, I love the entire time where he orders the horde to take care of this alliance family because they just essentially killed their father. That's cool, decent storytelling sure. But the point of my character in the entire campaign? It's like... go fight some alliance. And I know it's WARcraft but it feels so shallow because I know, you know, and literally everybody that has played the game before knows, that by the end of the expansion we are going to be working together. This entire "WAR" is moot and useless, it's a fucking waste of time. We kill some alliance soldiers and in 4 months we're gonna be jerking each other off making the entire identity of BFA both useless and pointless.

I have nothing to point towards to identify my character in BFA. "You're a horde soldier", shit at least WoD let me be a commander and run my actual own base of operations.

Again, not talking about gameplay specifically but the identity of my character. How do I come from defeating a fucking god and protecting civilians of Azeroth as a holy man directly to committing genocide because purple lady mad within 2 weeks. What was the point of the 180?

The 'heroes' who show up for the cinematic parts of the raids or who wander in after something has died really irk me, especially Genn Greymane who is awfully full of himself for a guy who managed to lose his homeland and whose primary defining characteristic is that he's a furry.

Everytime they show up I wanna yell 'who the fuck do you think you are?? Get your ass back you preening twat'

Korillo said:

Removing tier sets was a big mistake. They clearly don't understand how important transmog items are to some people. A lot of people like having a unique transmog for their class, but now it is just by armor type which sucks.

I guess I don't really understand the rest of the casual perspective though. What do you want them to add? Legion had class storylines & the mage tower, did these hold your interest? Mounts from paragon chests? Getting gear is arguably easier for a casual in BFA than it was in Legion, so I'm not really sure what you would want.

They have also made levelling much faster recently, so if that was something you enjoyed it is pretty quick now.

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Others above me have stated some good points, but yes, I do miss the class hall storylines and mage tower. I miss soloable grinds and goals. Grinding for my Rogue Outlaw Thunderfury skin. I could do that with a random group. Grinding up and unlocking all my class mounts. Those, while somewhat repetative after all my characters, were fun and rewarding and had great class theming going on. Grinding up fishing and getting an actual cool fishing pole that was thought out. Tracking down and unlocking hidden artifact appearances across all my characters was fun, and each one was a unique way to unlock. Just reading the speculation on how to unlock some before they were found, was awesome. The community would post for months trying to figure out the Ret Pally Corrupted Ashbringer quest. It was super fun going through the whole class hall campaigns on every class. I leveled a couple extra classes that I didn't have up, just so I could do their class hall experience. Which also gave me a lot of content because I spent a fair amount of time leveling those characters up from 1-110. I actually really liked some of Legion's armor sets, like the warrior one with the big ass boots and gloves. Or the rogue one, etc. So I farmed LFR a lot for those. Also I liked that there were PVP sets too, and I could do some PVP WQ's and once in a while, score a piece of the latest set. And randomly in BG's too. Plus I'd get a piece for the first PVP brawl win every 2 weeks, so I had to do this on all my characters. Spent a decent amount of time unlocking flying. Did a ton of Suramar questing. Went around and finished all the zones questlines. I spent a ton of time in mage tower, beating like 2/3rds of the classes and specs. The only ones I skipped were the ones I really disliked the looks of. I guess when it boils down to it, Xmog holds a decent amount of sway for me. Thank God Ion didn't get his way with changing the loot drop system for all the old raids and dungeons like he wanted to. That would have effectively killed xmog farming.

BFA has none of this. Class identity is gone. New xmog gear is pretty much nil. The raid gear all looks like garbage. The pvp gear is all the same junk just recolored, and again no class individuality. My DK doesn't look or feel like a DK. He looks like every Paladin and Warrior. My Rogue looks the same as a Monk or Druid. Islands give me what, stupid azerite that I don't give a shit about? And a chance at some pet or lame mount? Don't really care. Haven't done them since like week 3, and still was able to unlock all my gear traits easy, before the new item level bump. Same goes for Warfronts. Yeah they give you a good piece of gear once a month, and you can gear up in them pretty easy, but to me they are not fun at all. They are the same over and over. Dps down some npc's in a non-challenging manner for the next 20 minutes. There's no threat even. Thank God I can afk through them, as I couldn't even bring myself to participate in them once a month for the free item. Sad part is, they had some good themes going this expansion too. Drustvar was awesome. Got a real Witcher vibe there. But then it just ends, and that's it. Tirisgarde and Stormsong Valley and Voldun were good too. But they just end bluntly as well. Then it's all more Titan and Troll shit and forced Horde vs Alliance war shit that we've done 10 times before. The funny thing is, people that don't raid, don't care about item level rewards as much as the raiders do, because of the fact they don't raid and don't need the absolute best gear. Most casuals I've met, are just happy getting a decent purple here and there, to make their grinding ability a little easier, or to let them grind new content that comes out, like Argus. It's like a never ending cycle that keeps casuals engaged always having a path to unlock new things. Except they forgot to add that this time around.

xzi said:

don't worry lads I got yet another piece of heroic equivelent loot and this time it was a trinket from doing 3 world (turtle bois) quests

what a videogame

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So you got lucky with a titanforge? Twice? I hate BfA and how terrible WoW has become but let's not be insincere. Heroic BoD is 400 ilvl, not 385.

I'm not being insincere this is from the last 2 nights, not counting the warfront piece I'm about to get.

6 minutes of work, why raid?

Collected Works: Jeff Kaplan | PC Gamer

"I’m not sure how many people know this, but we shipped World Of Warcraft with 60 developers. Sixty people made that game. It’s something that to this day I’m very proud of, [but] after we launched, because it was such a difficult crunch and such a difficult development cycle, we lost about 20 developers.

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Crazy and on top of it in the next paragraph he explains they lost all their animators.