World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
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And I was saying that's even more retarded than saying WoW is skill-based. There was absolutely nothing hard about AFKing with your face against a wall besides not dying from the tedium. *Some* aspects may have beenmorechallenging due to lag, lack of mods, lack of fundamental knowledge, logistics, etc.. But it's incredibly stupid to point at EQ and say it required more skill than WoW. If EQ had the supporting infrastructure and gamer-knowledge of modern WoW or even vanilla WoW, name one single thing in the entire series that wouldn't have been a total steamroll outside of the now-atrocious time requirements and getting over 70 borderline imbeciles to work together.
If you define "skill" in the MMO genre as creating a strong community presence for yourself or your guild, then I take that all back -- EQ had an incredibly high skillcap.
Malakriss
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Vanilla WoW was about dedication and beating RNG. You needed people willing to put in the hours and the resources (consumables, enchants, etc) to do things day after day, week after week. But then you could never get the drops for Thunderfury, had the same class sets dropevery fucking timeand then had crazy streaks like 17 Eye of Divinity drops in a row with 0 hunter leafs.
The A team wasn't going to be BiS in a couple of weeks so guilds needed those months of farming to have both the A + B teams in BiS from the previous tier to compete in a new patch. Boss mechanics could overrun your tanks/dps and force healers to run out of mana long before you worried about hitting the enrage timer. Coordination was key in the early days not just between tank/dps/healer roles but within each class and the things they had to do. It wasn't until key fights in Naxx40 that they really showed the change in design philosophy where one derper could wipe the raid or you had X:YZ time until you died, get enough gear and consumables to accomplish it. The difference can literally be summarized by comparing Heigan vs Gothik.
The A team wasn't going to be BiS in a couple of weeks so guilds needed those months of farming to have both the A + B teams in BiS from the previous tier to compete in a new patch. Boss mechanics could overrun your tanks/dps and force healers to run out of mana long before you worried about hitting the enrage timer. Coordination was key in the early days not just between tank/dps/healer roles but within each class and the things they had to do. It wasn't until key fights in Naxx40 that they really showed the change in design philosophy where one derper could wipe the raid or you had X:YZ time until you died, get enough gear and consumables to accomplish it. The difference can literally be summarized by comparing Heigan vs Gothik.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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I dont know, I think people confuse eq being so hardcore with the fact that it just wasn't instanced and you often had to fight for shit you wanted. A lot of fights were hard but you still had the same idiot check and had to carry people all the same as you do now. Eq was by no means harder than anything else, it just required far more dedication than any other MMO since it required careful timing, people watching spawns, raid calls and races. However shit like that is missed, and it's still the best years put in a game outside UO.
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Even in Heroic 10 man, you still have your A Team and your carries. Most often, its the Tanks and a couple other people. They know their role, the healers role, and the dps's role in each and every fight. You carries would be those that only care enough to know their specific responsibilities and that's it. When faced with a question about how the raid even works, they only know it from one perspective. Heroic requires that they be great at their role, but they are hopeless without the A Team to guide the entire raid and point out what the "fuck up" was when the raid wipes. If anyone is curious where they stand in that, ask yourself if you have ever been in a position where no one in the entire raid knows whats causing the wipes.
As for those that pull you down, I usually catch on pretty quick to who isn't up to par but knew I could still work with what I had. It wasn't until SoO that I really got a hard on for getting as far as I could in Heroic. But that just leads on to my current gripe about how MMO's are suppose to be Social, but for you to do the content that challenges you personally, you often have to be brutally honest and mean to the people you're friends with. By the time I downed Thok, I was just burnt out on the guild drama and ball slamming content.
Even though this is just a witty comeback, its pretty spot on. I love hearing how people say WoW takes no skill, yet the majority wouldnt even be able to down Heroic Immerseus.
You're nuts. I was on the favorable side of those races 99/100 times and I hated it then and I would definitely hate that shit now. Leaving a program up on your PC so someone can "Buzz" you at 4am in the morning (VOIP wasnt around, or popular iirc) was the dumbest shit ever. "Why are you so tired man? We didnt even have practice yesterday. Bro, I slayed a dragon at like 5 this morning."
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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Don't know man, our 10 man was solid and we were made to learn encounters in and out. Those who slacked were replaced just to ensure that the 10 inside were the A team. I mean we had a lock who would consistently have to be reminded to checks his quadrant on heroic malk but I still think it's possible for all 10 to be considered the A team.
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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If you were reliably downing Garrosh Heroic - I got some Cheeseburgers with your name on them if you need a Mage or a Tank. (6.0+ content of course)
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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Lol we had call list in vanilla wow for emerald dragons and in eq2. It sucks when it's at 3am and you need to be up at 5 but it's what you signed up for trying to raid with top tier guilds.
As for the heroic Garrosh shit, nah I quit after heroic thok. It just wasn't fun nor worth the difficulty bump. I seriously hate wow loot system.
There's a difference between skill and learning a fight. Skill requires the ability to think and act on the fly to counter random acts. Not memorizing a rotation.
I know it's rather ancient history, but Rob Pardo was the reason Alex and Jeff got jobs at Blizzard, Rob Pardo worked at Blizzard pre-Everquest.
Classic Collectors edition, playing since Open beta... apparently qualifies me as a veteren, who knew... Too bad I absolutetly despised what happened to Paladins in Cata and MoP made it even worse, anyone able to summarise for me changes in WoD?
Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I knew Tig and him were from LoS, but I never knew he was already working for Blizzard.
..And that same question has been asked a bunch lately -Just go here and check it out.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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Same, but didn't go full blown CE on them all, and never got any beta or alpha invites except hearthstone. Opting in seems pointless at times, but sure glad they gave IGN all those codes to hand out....sarcasm.
Juvarisx
Florida
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If Vanilla WoW got harder raid wise anywhere it would have been due to a few fights
Twin Emps
C'Thun (huge amount of co-ordination not to kill your entire raid
And Naxx+
I can't imagine anything in EQ requing the co-ordination of a vanilla Sapph or Kel'Thuzad. Say all you want about A team and B team there were fights that just flat don't allow you to have a B team, and that is particularly true as the expansions rolled on. Pre Nerf Kil'Jaden? Hell pre nerf anything in Sunwell, or Illidari Council, or Vashj, or Kael'thas. One "B" team member fucking up a feather on Archimonde or a derp on a cleanse = ye bye raid attempt.
It kept scaling but people actually surprisingly got better. The fights just keep getting more and more intricate. In my life I had never done so much dodging then Heroic Siegecrafter Blackfuse as one of the first 50 Western 25 man guilds to do it. It makes everything from prior expansion look like a fucking joke, but I still remember the struggle of Kil'Jaeden. Shit just keeps getting harder I can't even guess what this expansion will have, some of the fights from Pandaria were getting crazy.
Twin Emps
C'Thun (huge amount of co-ordination not to kill your entire raid
And Naxx+
I can't imagine anything in EQ requing the co-ordination of a vanilla Sapph or Kel'Thuzad. Say all you want about A team and B team there were fights that just flat don't allow you to have a B team, and that is particularly true as the expansions rolled on. Pre Nerf Kil'Jaden? Hell pre nerf anything in Sunwell, or Illidari Council, or Vashj, or Kael'thas. One "B" team member fucking up a feather on Archimonde or a derp on a cleanse = ye bye raid attempt.
It kept scaling but people actually surprisingly got better. The fights just keep getting more and more intricate. In my life I had never done so much dodging then Heroic Siegecrafter Blackfuse as one of the first 50 Western 25 man guilds to do it. It makes everything from prior expansion look like a fucking joke, but I still remember the struggle of Kil'Jaeden. Shit just keeps getting harder I can't even guess what this expansion will have, some of the fights from Pandaria were getting crazy.