2021-2022 NFL Season: Deshaun Watson will die a Texan!

Ambiturner

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Kirun said:
Really? Fitzgerald isn't an all-time great? Holt probably not, but Bruce? Bruce is absolutely an all-time WR. He's 13th on the receptions list and 5th in yards.

Faulk had 4 1000 yard rushing seasons without Warner and 3 with him. His numbers weren't "far better" with Warner.
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Fitzgerald is one i'd say is all time, not Bruce. Holt generally has much better stats than Bruce, who only has like 1500 more yards in 5 more seasons.

Faulk's also not all time great because of his rushing, it's his dual threat total yards rushing and receiving.
 
Kirun

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Ambiturner said:
Fitzgerald is one i'd say is all time, not Bruce. Holt generally has much better stats than Bruce, who only has like 1500 more yards in 5 more seasons.

Faulk's also not all time great because of his rushing, it's his dual threat total yards rushing and receiving.
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Holt better than Bruce? And Bruce not an all-time great WR despite being 5th in yards, 13th in receptions and 13th in TDs. Now that's a hot take. What do you think Daezuel Daezuel ?

Irvin doesn't even crack the top 25 in yards and not even the top 60 in TDs. If Bruce isn't "all-time" great, that pretty much makes Irvin a garbage bag of a receiver.
 
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Ambiturner said:
One engineered an all time offense for several years and the other rode their defense to 2 accidental wins.
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Eli sucks and his face is all wrong, but by god anyone who blank face stumbled their way into taking down the pats in their perfect season is an automatic first rounder. Because of him, I can still argue that Eli manning at peak performance is better than Cheatin Brady with a straight face.
 
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Ambiturner

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Kirun said:
Holt better than Bruce? And Bruce not an all-time great WR despite being 5th in yards, 13th in receptions and 13th in TDs. Now that's a hot take. What do you think Daezuel Daezuel ?

Irvin doesn't even crack the top 25 in yards and not even the top 60 in TDs. If Bruce isn't "all-time" great, that pretty much makes Irvin a garbage bag of a receiver.
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Not sure what Irvin has to do with anything, but Bruce played 16 seasons and didn't crack 1000 yards in 8 of those. Holt managed the same amount of 1000+ seasons while playing 5 less years. If injuries hadn't killed his career a little earlier than he'd have wanted he would have blown by Bruce in pretty much everything

Not sure why you remember Isaac Bruce as some god tier receiver, but he was just a very good receiver and in no way shape or form an all timer.
 
Kirun

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Ambiturner said:
Not sure what Irvin has to do with anything, but Bruce played 16 seasons and didn't crack 1000 yards in 8 of those. Holt managed the same amount of 1000+ seasons while playing 5 less years. If injuries hadn't killed his career a little earlier than he'd have wanted he would have blown by Bruce in pretty much everything

Not sure why you remember Isaac Bruce as some god tier receiver, but he was just a very good receiver and in no way shape or form an all timer.
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I mentioned Irvin because being a Cowboys homer, you probably consider him an all-time great, despite his shitty stats.

God tier? Nobody is saying Bruce is that. There's really only 3 "god-tier" receivers and that's Rice, Owens, and Carter - I could maybe be convinced to add Moss or Brown as a 4th. But, to say people like Bruce, Megatron, Andre Johnson, Fitz, etc. aren't all-time greats? Seems silly.
 
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Daezuel

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Bruce was actually 2nd in yards when he retired but beyond that Bruce played for many terrible qbs and teams while Holt did not.

It's all a retarded argument anyways, how were the Rams doing in the decade before Warner showed up and won a Superbowl?

That Rams defense wasn't that special either, they got out to big leads and forced teams to be one dimensional.

The defense fell off a huge cliff the next year.
 
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Sterling

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Isaac Bruce is a lot like Art Monk was. Very good and a HoF type due to longevity and accumulation of total stats. Peak Holt was better than Bruce but obviously he played longer.

Also, putting Owens ahead of Calvin Johnson is wild. It's pretty obvious you care more about compiled numbers over peak stretches which is I can get, but I think there's some middle ground to peak vs longevity that works.
 
Alex

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Calvin Johnson is one of the greatest football players of all time. He's absolutely god tier. I remember at one point he accounted for over a fourth of the yards Stafford had thrown for. This was like 5 years after Megatron retired. Insane.
 
Ambiturner

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Kirun said:
I mentioned Irvin because being a Cowboys homer, you probably consider him an all-time great, despite his shitty stats.

God tier? Nobody is saying Bruce is that. There's really only 3 "god-tier" receivers and that's Rice, Owens, and Carter - I could maybe be convinced to add Moss or Brown as a 4th. But, to say people like Bruce, Megatron, Andre Johnson, Fitz, etc. aren't all-time greats? Seems silly.
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Wouldn't put Irvin as an all timer. Only players from 90s Cowboys i'd put on a list like that would be Emmitt, Larry Allen, and Deion Sanders.

Not sure where you get all those other guys from when all I'm talking about is Bruce.

Sterling said:
Isaac Bruce is a lot like Art Monk was. Very good and a HoF type due to longevity and accumulation of total stats. Peak Holt was better than Bruce but obviously he played longer.

Also, putting Owens ahead of Calvin Johnson is wild. It's pretty obvious you care more about compiled numbers over peak stretches which is I can get, but I think there's some middle ground to peak vs longevity that works.
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Megatron is the NFL's Lebron in just how much of a freak of nature he was. 6'5, 240lbs, 45" vert, 4.3 40 yard dash. It's a shame he and Barry were wasted on the Lions
 
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Kirun

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Sterling said:
Isaac Bruce is a lot like Art Monk was. Very good and a HoF type due to longevity and accumulation of total stats. Peak Holt was better than Bruce but obviously he played longer.

Also, putting Owens ahead of Calvin Johnson is wild. It's pretty obvious you care more about compiled numbers over peak stretches which is I can get, but I think there's some middle ground to peak vs longevity that works.
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There's a LOT to be said about longevity and guys who do it over a long period of time. Call it "compiling stats", but I'll take the dude who has 1000+ receiving yards every year for 10+ years over the dude who has 10k receiving yards in 2 years. I guess Jerry was just a "stat-compiler" because he played so long, eh?

Owens is 3rd in yards, 3rd in TDs, and 8th in receptions. Johnson is nowhere near those numbers. You can say he played for the Lions, but that also means you're playing for a team that is going to throw it 50+ times a game because they're shit. He also got to play most of his career in a league where you can't touch a WR or a QB. He's obviously an all-time great, but he needed another 3-4 years of that level of gameplay to reach "god tier" status IMO. Andre Johnson has much better numbers and he played for an absolute dogshit team in the Texans and NEVER had a QB even on the level of somebody average like Stafford.
 
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BrutulTM

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Just reminding you all that when you talk about the worst qb in the hall of fame Bob Greise won 2 Superbowls in which he threw for 88 and 73 yards respectively. Also, he was the backup qb for most of the undefeated season and didn't start until the second game of the playoffs.
 
Kirun

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BrutulTM said:
Just reminding you all that when you talk about the worst qb in the hall of fame Bob Greise won 2 Superbowls in which he threw for 88 and 73 yards respectively. Also, he was the backup qb for most of the undefeated season and didn't start until the second game of the playoffs.
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Sure, there's plenty of "old-school" QBs who have dogshit stats, especially in SBs. But, you were also able to completely maul receivers and snap QBs in half back then. It's more an "era for era" comparison amongst overrated QBs in the HoF (Eli isn't in yet, but he likely will be). Kurt and Eli played in roughly the same "eras".
 
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Jozu

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Aaron Donald All-Pro 7 seasons.

He has been in the league 8 years.

Unreal. Has there ever been a rookie All Pro?

edit: parsons just did it this year nm.
 
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Szeth

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I can’t say this enough. Aaron Donald is the best player in the NFL, he may be the best of all time.
 
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Kaines

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Jozu said:
Aaron Donald All-Pro 7 seasons.

He has been in the league 8 years.

Unreal. Has there ever been a rookie All Pro?

edit: parsons just did it this year nm.
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Zack Martin also made All-Pro his rookie year (2014).
 
Sterling

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Jozu said:
Aaron Donald All-Pro 7 seasons.

He has been in the league 8 years.

Unreal. Has there ever been a rookie All Pro?

edit: parsons just did it this year nm.
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It's happened before. LT did it in 1981 and was even the DPOY.
 
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Merrith

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Ambiturner said:
People in here really arguing that lesser Manning is more deserving of HoF than Kurt Warner?

Holy fuck guys
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Actually I wasn't really thinking about Eli all that much. Thought there were a couple of other QB's in the Hall more overrated than Warner given the high points on his resume.
 
Merrith

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Kirun said:
Faulk had 4 1000 yard rushing seasons without Warner and 3 with him. His numbers weren't "far better" with Warner.
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Guess it depends on what we mean by "far better". 4 other 1k yard seasons, but out of the 7 total, can you guess whether Warner was there for the 3 years were his top 3 in rushing yards? Which 3 years were the only 3 he averaged over 5 yards per attempt? Both of his seasons with over 20 TD's? He broke 2k scrimmage yards 4 years in his career, including all 3 with Warner starting majority of the games (the other with Peyton in Indy). He also only played 14 games in both 2000 and 2001 with Warner and still piled up the numbers he did.
 
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