2024-2025 NBA Season - In Bronny We Trust

zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
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Steph would have been just fine in the era lol. If he had truly existed in that era of course he wouldn't have had the impact he does today because coaches simply didn't let guys shoot that many 3's.



Most of your argument had nothing to do with the original argument but this is true. Now, what was the argument for people who are unable to look back just a few pages? Lenardo stated that in today's game of 3 pointers everywhere, Bird, Jordan, and maybe others would have adjusted their game and feasted. Alex said not everyone is a Curry even though the Celtics and others have adjusted with massive 3 point sprees. Are you agreeing with Alex that Jordan and Bird couldn't do that? That's today's game of chucking up 3 pointers is just too hard for the 'fat drunks' that Alex called the 80s players? That one of the heaviest players in Jokic somehow plays lights out but Jordan couldn't? That Luka was traded for not putting gym workouts as a primary priority but somehow still dominates? Bird or Jordan couldn't do what Doncic does? That's his argument. Is that yours as well or do you agree that elite players of the 80s could also adjust to this 3 point dominant game without being The Curry?
 
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Alex

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Most of your argument had nothing to do with the original argument but this is true. Now, what was the argument for people who are unable to look back just a few pages? Lenardo stated that in today's game of 3 pointers everywhere, Bird, Jordan, and maybe others would have adjusted their game and feasted. Alex said not everyone is a Curry even though the Celtics and others have adjusted with massive 3 point sprees. Are you agreeing with Alex that Jordan and Bird couldn't do that? That's today's game of chucking up 3 pointers is just too hard for the 'fat drunks' that Alex called the 80s players? That one of the heaviest players in Jokic somehow plays lights out but Jordan couldn't? That Luka was traded for not putting gym workouts as a primary priority but somehow still dominates? Bird or Jordan couldn't do what Doncic does? That's his argument. Is that yours as well or do you agree that elite players of the 80s could also adjust to this 3 point dominant game without being The Curry?

That's not what was originally said by Lenardo. He was saying that the likes of Bird and such would far outscore anyone today. Like everyone today is just shitty compared to the almighty boomers. That's what got my jimmies rustled.

Also yes Curry is transcendent and is the greatest shooter of all time and arguing that is objectively false. It's a well accepted fact by anyone that knows ball.
 
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Loser Araysar

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That's not what was originally said by Lenardo. He was saying that the likes of Bird and such would far outscore anyone today. Like everyone today is just shitty compared to the almighty boomers. That's what got my jimmies rustled.

Boomers would have play by the current fake and gay NBA rules and would probably foul out by half time
Zoomers playing in the 80s would be crying in locker room by half time and asking if they can go home
 
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zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
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That's not what was originally said by Lenardo. He was saying that the likes of Bird and such would far outscore anyone today. Like everyone today is just shitty compared to the almighty boomers. That's what got my jimmies rustled.

No, he said the stars of those teams would be racking up 40+ points and lightning it up …which they would. It had nothing to do with today’s stars who do the same thing today outside of saying there’s not a lot of real basketball being played today. That’s just fact and the NBA has acknowledged it.

You’re so fixating on defending Curry from any implied threat that you can’t even have a balanced conversation. Curry is the greatest 3 point shooter ever but he’s had down years like every other player. Other teams have adjusted and the old elite players would have given him good competition. Not everyone before Curry was shit no matter how much you demean them….Zoomer. Get your insults right. Gen X grew up with Bird, Magic, and the GOAT. Those are our boys.
 
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TomServo

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That's not what was originally said by Lenardo. He was saying that the likes of Bird and such would far outscore anyone today. Like everyone today is just shitty compared to the almighty boomers. That's what got my jimmies rustled.

Also yes Curry is transcendent and is the greatest shooter of all time and arguing that is objectively false. It's a well accepted fact by anyone that knows ball.
Dude you sound like a limp dick zoomer who has never "hooped" himself. Like the loser nfl fans jocking players and can't sprint 15 feet without getting winded.

Curry is a soft bitch who launches 100s of thousands of threes. Woopity fucking doo.

Keep on sweating your weak ass LeBron and currys.
 
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zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
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40+ PPG is far outscoring anyone today.

"regularly putting up 40+ points a game" is not 40 PPG. Reading is hard. Part of your problem is a lack of understanding of basketball. Players today usually sit to rest after they hit a certain number of minutes. They could probably hit 40+ more often if they played longer in each game but outside of your favorite aberration excuse, LBJ, most players average low to mid 30s in minutes played. Jordan averaged 38 for his career. Same for Bird. Barkley averaged 37. Iverson over 40. Sprewell 38. Malone 37.


Your biggest problem is that you think you know what you're talking about, but you never do. Usual Zoomer problem. If those guys played the minutes they career averaged in the 3-point shoot fest of the modern NBA, they would have easily put up 40+ point games fairly regularly depending on the definition of regular. That's the argument you should have gone with, but it was beyond your abilities.
 
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Alex

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I'm 40 years old. Anyone who disagrees with you isn't a zoomer.

Anyway you're backpedaling with gay ass semantics now. Case closed. Have a nice Saturday.
 
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Tasty The Treat

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Boomers would have play by the current fake and gay NBA rules and would probably foul out by half time
Zoomers playing in the 80s would be crying in locker room by half time and asking if they can go home
For real the officials basically run the NBA by this point and can easily determine outcomes with their shitty officiating. The game has become so soft and coddles actors flopping so blatantly it's become a complete joke. I only have to laugh at anyone who still takes this shit seriously.

I think a big part of this has always been LeBron. His "bullyball" style has always been completely dependent upon him being gifted with fouls every time he drives towards the basket. Playing by the rules of the past before the league changed the calls for his favor, he wouldn't be half the player he is today.
 
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TomServo

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For real the officials basically run the NBA by this point and can easily determine outcomes with their shitty officiating. The game has become so soft and coddles actors flopping so blatantly it's become a complete joke. I only have to laugh at anyone who still takes this shit seriously.

I think a big part of this has always been LeBron. His "bullyball" style has always been completely dependent upon him being gifted with fouls every time he drives towards the basket. Playing by the rules of the past before the league changed the calls for his favor, he wouldn't be half the player he is today.
I would have loved to seen Rick mahorn decapitating that bitch driving to the basket
 
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Tasty The Treat

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I would have loved to seen Rick mahorn decapitating that bitch driving to the basket
Force LeFlop to play by old school NBA rules and we would quickly learn what real bullyball looks like.

It's why I could never respect him, the NBA literally changed the rules of the game to enable his style of playing and make him perform better.
 
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OU Ariakas

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For anyone to act like today's scoring is not directly related to the removal of the hand check (mainly) and the NBA's demands that the refs call tiny little touches as fouls is ridiculous. Curry is an amazing shooter and would have been an amazing outside threat in the 80s and 90s; his ass would not have gotten a single shot off inside 10 feet and his coach would have told him never to drive to a contested basket because he would have gotten put on his ass every time. I love the Thunder, but both SGA and Durant would have been pushed around like rag dolls if they still allowed the hand check, all those points they scored because they threaten to dribble and then just pull up would have been negated by a defender that planted his hand in their back to completely neuter the spin move.

Also, Luca's fucking whiney bitch ass would have scooted back to Europe already after he was intentionally bloodied a few times for opening his retarded mouth. Fuck that dude.
 
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Pharazon2

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For anyone to act like today's scoring is not directly related to the removal of the hand check (mainly) and the NBA's demands that the refs call tiny little touches as fouls is ridiculous. Curry is an amazing shooter and would have been an amazing outside threat in the 80s and 90s; his ass would not have gotten a single shot off inside 10 feet and his coach would have told him never to drive to a contested basket because he would have gotten put on his ass every time.

Very debatable how much the removal of hand checking has changed scoring averages. League scoring averages changed drastically at other times before hand checking was ever removed in 2004. Scoring in the 80's and early 90's was much higher than it was in the late 90's and 2000's. Scoring really started to drastically increase long after the hand checking was disallowed.

I'd argue that the single biggest factor that has affected scoring over time is style of play, driven largely by the most successful teams in the league. In this copycat league, most teams try to emulate the style of the teams that win. League scoring average was well over 100ppg from the 70's to early 90's. The pace of play really started to dip in the mid 90's - probably largely due to the success of the Bulls and other champs of the era. The triangle is a very slow-paced, methodical offense. When the Bulls paired that with a dominant defense, and especially as they aged, their scoring dipped into the 90's and the league followed. Everybody thought you had to play a slow-paced, defensive-minded game that valued possessions in order to compete. And it wasn't just the Bulls - mix in the inside out, post oriented offenses of the Hakeem Rockets, the TD-Robinson Spurs, another few years of triangle dominance with Kobe and Shaq, and everybody thought you had to have a post-oriented, slow-paced offense to have a shot at winning. The year hand-checking was disallowed, league scoring only increased 4 ppg from 93ppg to 97ppg, and hovered around or below 100ppg until about 2016. 2016 and 2017 scoring bumped up a bit to 105ppg and 106ppg, and has been over 110 ppg since 2018.

I don't have to say what caused scoring to increase by basically 10ppg from 2015 to 2018. It took the league a few years to fully embrace the Warriors style - and I wouldn't just say it was the Warriors. The Spurs last title was much more of a ball movement, 3-point based attack as well and no doubt had a lot of influence on Kerr's offense. So basically my thesis is that removal of hand checking at best added 4-5 ppg scoring. The success of the Warriors and realization from the league that you had to bomb away to efficiently compete added 10 ppg. And btw, the highest-scoring era the league has seen was the 60's with no 3-point line.

Also, here's 20 minutes of Isiah scoring in the paint in the late 80's / early 90's, largely untouched, to illustrate how stupid it is to say Curry would never score in the paint in that era and would get put on his ass every time he tried.

 
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Sterling

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People make it sound like players are foul merchants because they're bitches and not because they get rewarded for the behavior. Good athletes will adapt to the context of their environment. There are some players with particular skillsets that wouldn't translate as well era to era but in general the best players will be among the best players in most eras. And the league is deeper talent wise than it's ever been. That's not even debatable. Having access to all the international players makes a massive difference.
 
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zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
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Very debatable how much the removal of hand checking has changed scoring averages. League scoring averages changed drastically at other times before hand checking was ever removed in 2004. Scoring in the 80's and early 90's was much higher than it was in the late 90's and 2000's. Scoring really started to drastically increase long after the hand checking was disallowed.

I'd argue that the single biggest factor that has affected scoring over time is style of play, driven largely by the most successful teams in the league. In this copycat league, most teams try to emulate the style of the teams that win. League scoring average was well over 100ppg from the 70's to early 90's. The pace of play really started to dip in the mid 90's - probably largely due to the success of the Bulls and other champs of the era. The triangle is a very slow-paced, methodical offense. When the Bulls paired that with a dominant defense, and especially as they aged, their scoring dipped into the 90's and the league followed. Everybody thought you had to play a slow-paced, defensive-minded game that valued possessions in order to compete. And it wasn't just the Bulls - mix in the inside out, post oriented offenses of the Hakeem Rockets, the TD-Robinson Spurs, another few years of triangle dominance with Kobe and Shaq, and everybody thought you had to have a post-oriented, slow-paced offense to have a shot at winning. The year hand-checking was disallowed, league scoring only increased 4 ppg from 93ppg to 97ppg, and hovered around or below 100ppg until about 2016. 2016 and 2017 scoring bumped up a bit to 105ppg and 106ppg, and has been over 110 ppg since 2018.

I don't have to say what caused scoring to increase by basically 10ppg from 2015 to 2018. It took the league a few years to fully embrace the Warriors style - and I wouldn't just say it was the Warriors. The Spurs last title was much more of a ball movement, 3-point based attack as well and no doubt had a lot of influence on Kerr's offense. So basically my thesis is that removal of hand checking at best added 4-5 ppg scoring. The success of the Warriors and realization from the league that you had to bomb away to efficiently compete added 10 ppg. And btw, the highest-scoring era the league has seen was the 60's with no 3-point line.

Also, here's 20 minutes of Isiah scoring in the paint in the late 80's / early 90's, largely untouched, to illustrate how stupid it is to say Curry would never score in the paint in that era and would get put on his ass every time he tried.



Your argument is just as debatable. You ignore the James Hardens of that period but let me remind you. The Whiteboard: Are the NBA’s new foul rules hurting James Harden? . It looks like the NBA had to shut down that type of play which was popular. It seems like the 3 point onslaught started with Mike D'Antoni though.

What was "the Warriors style?" Play 4 All Stars against 2-3 and abuse that advantage to ensure someone couldn't be defended? That sounds like the Lebron style but with just another All Star added. Nothing special about that honestly.

Out of the top 20 teams who have attempted the most 3 pointers, 4 of them were Warriors teams and they were the last 4 years played. None of them were the "ball movement, 3-point style of the 2010s" that you suggest. Three of them were the last 3 years of Celtics teams. Four of them were the 2016-2020 Rockets though. In fact, the Rockets are the only teams in the top 20 from before the 2021 season.

So, the most factual answer is that no one could afford to keep the 4 All Star solution of the Warriors, so they just imitated D'Antoni's teams and copied the system abuse he discovered.
 

Tasty The Treat

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People make it sound like players are foul merchants because they're bitches and not because they get rewarded for the behavior. Good athletes will adapt to the context of their environment. There are some players with particular skillsets that wouldn't translate as well era to era but in general the best players will be among the best players in most eras. And the league is deeper talent wise than it's ever been. That's not even debatable. Having access to all the international players makes a massive difference.
Honestly I simply blame the officiating. I think the NBA needs to get much harder on these officials, start holding them accountable for repeated blatant bad and one sided calls. Fine them, suspend them, make them ineligible for playoff games. The league needs to stop being so soft on these fucks. Take control and make it all about the players again, not refball.
 
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