2024-2025 NFL Season - Dak Prescott's MVP Tour Part 2

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Ameraves

Ameraves

New title pending...
<Bronze Donator>
13,722
14,991
Yup, very curious to see who they can replace him with, and how far back that sets them. Cause even if they bring in someone who is great, unless they are already in house and building off of Ben Johnson's playbook, they will have a whole new offense to learn.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,782
89,451
Ameraves said:
Yup, very curious to see who they can replace him with, and how far back that sets them. Cause even if they bring in someone who is great, unless they are already in house and building off of Ben Johnson's playbook, they will have a whole new offense to learn.
Click to expand...

It will be pretty hard to find a coach that makes Goff look that good so often. Bears just gave the Lions a headshot.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,650
7,273
zzeris said:
I think you answered it in your post above this one. The winning team didn't turn the ball over. I don't see how you can definitively say Andrews drops were any worse than Lamar's just because of the timing. No one can know if Buffalo changes their gameplan, if something else happens, etc. Andrews cost them 2 points for sure and Lamar cost them 7. The numbers alone makes this hard to dispute. Lamar's history of shitting the bed sets the tone as well.

It's really the modern attempt to sell QBs to make more money for the NFL that promotes this garbage. QBs are THE reason teams win and NEVER the reason TEAMS lose. It can't be both things. Just because he's an incredible QB, doesn't mean he can't get criticism for his flaws. Accountability is a real issue in modern America. No one ever wants it.
Click to expand...

He deserves blame for the turnovers, but in the end he took his offense 90+ yards for TD and threw a pass on the 2 point conversion that should have been caught. You make mistakes, you better make up for them. He made enough plays in the end to give his team a chance. Andrews already had a drop earlier in the game, plus the fumble. Catching the 2 would have made up for that. You drop the 2, there's no recourse except for a hope and a prayer onside kick.

DT already pointed it out, but in the case of Lamar and Allen, they've always been labeled why their teams can't get it done in the playoffs. It's always either guy v Mahomes, or each other, or Burrow. Absolutely criticize the turnovers, but he also should get praise for the great plays he made in the game to bring them back in it. Andrews just has to not drop the pass and it's 27-27 with 90 seconds left in the game. Completely winnable toss up at that point.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
<Silver Donator>
14,795
2,692
Merrith said:
He deserves blame for the turnovers, but in the end he took his offense 90+ yards for TD and threw a pass on the 2 point conversion that should have been caught. You make mistakes, you better make up for them. He made enough plays in the end to give his team a chance. Andrews already had a drop earlier in the game, plus the fumble. Catching the 2 would have made up for that. You drop the 2, there's no recourse except for a hope and a prayer onside kick.

DT already pointed it out, but in the case of Lamar and Allen, they've always been labeled why their teams can't get it done in the playoffs. It's always either guy v Mahomes, or each other, or Burrow. Absolutely criticize the turnovers, but he also should get praise for the great plays he made in the game to bring them back in it. Andrews just has to not drop the pass and it's 27-27 with 90 seconds left in the game. Completely winnable toss up at that point.
Click to expand...
Yeah, as badly as he played early and as much as the running game brought them back, you do have to give him credit for being clutch on that last drive which *should* have been enough to get them to OT.

On the other hand, his TD pass only came after he had about 17 seconds to stand in the pocket and wait for someone to get wide open which is pretty rare.



I mean, pretty much any NFL QB should be able to complete a pass with that much time right?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,782
89,451
Merrith said:
He deserves blame for the turnovers, but in the end he took his offense 90+ yards for TD and threw a pass on the 2 point conversion that should have been caught. You make mistakes, you better make up for them. He made enough plays in the end to give his team a chance. Andrews already had a drop earlier in the game, plus the fumble. Catching the 2 would have made up for that. You drop the 2, there's no recourse except for a hope and a prayer onside kick.

DT already pointed it out, but in the case of Lamar and Allen, they've always been labeled why their teams can't get it done in the playoffs. It's always either guy v Mahomes, or each other, or Burrow. Absolutely criticize the turnovers, but he also should get praise for the great plays he made in the game to bring them back in it. Andrews just has to not drop the pass and it's 27-27 with 90 seconds left in the game. Completely winnable toss up at that point.
Click to expand...

Right, and he should get credit, but they already do all the time, do they not? This is the era of the QB. Live by the QB and die by the QB, right? He's what gets you the wins and usually gets you the losses as well. Is that not the current narrative in this sport?

Let's be honest for a second. Did Jared Goff lose that game? Honestly? Of course he did. His teammates say that's not true but we both know that, right? Sam Darnold lost his game too, didn't he? If we are being honest, of course he did. Did Lamar's fumble that gave the Bills 7 points lose that game? Yes. Did he do a good job of recovering? Yes. Did Andrews drop also lose the game? Sure. But the narrative is that because of Lamar's talent, and because we have to promote QBs so much, and because Andrews is not a QB, we can now blame him for the loss. Andrews had 64 yards of offense. He helped too but the QB, obviously, brings more to the table. Does that excuse his failures? I think it doesn't. People can rightly blame Lamar for this loss. Because he was a prime contributor. Josh Allen played an awful game, but he had zero turnovers. Did he help the Bills win with his lack of turnovers? Sure seems like it.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,650
7,273
zzeris said:
Right, and he should get credit, but they already do all the time, do they not? This is the era of the QB. Live by the QB and die by the QB, right? He's what gets you the wins and usually gets you the losses as well. Is that not the current narrative in this sport?

Let's be honest for a second. Did Jared Goff lose that game? Honestly? Of course he did. His teammates say that's not true but we both know that, right? Sam Darnold lost his game too, didn't he? If we are being honest, of course he did. Did Lamar's fumble that gave the Bills 7 points lose that game? Yes. Did he do a good job of recovering? Yes. Did Andrews drop also lose the game? Sure. But the narrative is that because of Lamar's talent, and because we have to promote QBs so much, and because Andrews is not a QB, we can now blame him for the loss. Andrews had 64 yards of offense. He helped too but the QB, obviously, brings more to the table. Does that excuse his failures? I think it doesn't. People can rightly blame Lamar for this loss. Because he was a prime contributor. Josh Allen played an awful game, but he had zero turnovers. Did he help the Bills win with his lack of turnovers? Sure seems like it.
Click to expand...

To a degree. Hell Josh Allen still gets dogged for being winless v Mahomes in the playoffs and many people just ignore the fact he handed his D a lead with 13 seconds left, never got the ball back, and lost the game.

Goff and Darnold are interesting comparisons. Goff had 4 turnovers, not 2. Goff didn't lead a 90+ yard drive to potentially tie the game up after those turnovers. Goff had Sam LaPorta his tight end make what may be the catch of the year (or 2nd best, behind that one other one I can't remember which WR had the insane one handed one, although frankly the LaPorta one may even top that) instead of dropping a potential game tying catch. Goff threw 2 picks in the red zone. Goff's fumble occurred on a 3rd and 1 at Washington's 17 yard line. Goff threw a Pick 6. Now I will say this...Goff isn't on their super banged up defense that gave up 38 points (plus a missed field goal which would have been 41), but yeah.

Sam Darnold is a pumpkin who's O line got wrecked by the Rams D line for 9 sacks. He's kind of whatever.

But my main point is there's levels to it, right? Goff's level of blame should clearly be higher, no? Obviously more than Darnold's, but still more than Lamar's.

I disagree with that narrative idea that it's just about QB's so everything is about protecting them since they have to sell them because it's live by the QB, die by the QB. People have spent so much time this year pointing out Joe Burrow with even a half way competetent defense is likely hosting a playoff game, in the MVP race if not winning outright, etc. Can't be all about the QB if having an ungodly shit tier D torpedos your whole season.

Lets say Andrews fumbled in quarter 1 or dropped a TD early in the game, but then Lamar ends the game with a bone headed interception on their final drive. Are you suggesting people would be blaming Andrews the same amount over Lamar in that situation? Because that's crazy. Lamar would be getting dragged through the coals completely if events played out that way, and rightfully so. The actual narrative is Lamar legitly has not played well in the playoffs previously, so any mistake he's going to make is going to be magnified that much more until/if he manages to actually achieve some new level of success/win a Super Bowl. Now that is a narrative based on facts, and he made mistakes in the game last night that hurt the team, but I don't think its crazy to point out the fact another player on his team made mistakes that more seriously threatened their chance of winning the game. Maybe that's not fair, but a kicker misses a kick in the 1st quarter, you stlll have 3 quarters to play/overcome those lost 3 points. If he misses a kick on the final play of the game, there's no coming back from that.

TL;DR - Lamar should absolutely shoulder blame for the turnovers, I don't think it's crazy for rational fans in the end to realize Andrews sold the bag when it mattered most, though
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,782
89,451
Merrith said:
To a degree. Hell Josh Allen still gets dogged for being winless v Mahomes in the playoffs and many people just ignore the fact he handed his D a lead with 13 seconds left, never got the ball back, and lost the game.

Goff and Darnold are interesting comparisons. Goff had 4 turnovers, not 2. Goff didn't lead a 90+ yard drive to potentially tie the game up after those turnovers. Goff had Sam LaPorta his tight end make what may be the catch of the year (or 2nd best, behind that one other one I can't remember which WR had the insane one handed one, although frankly the LaPorta one may even top that) instead of dropping a potential game tying catch. Goff threw 2 picks in the red zone. Goff's fumble occurred on a 3rd and 1 at Washington's 17 yard line. Goff threw a Pick 6. Now I will say this...Goff isn't on their super banged up defense that gave up 38 points (plus a missed field goal which would have been 41), but yeah.

Sam Darnold is a pumpkin who's O line got wrecked by the Rams D line for 9 sacks. He's kind of whatever.

But my main point is there's levels to it, right? Goff's level of blame should clearly be higher, no? Obviously more than Darnold's, but still more than Lamar's.

I disagree with that narrative idea that it's just about QB's so everything is about protecting them since they have to sell them because it's live by the QB, die by the QB. People have spent so much time this year pointing out Joe Burrow with even a half way competetent defense is likely hosting a playoff game, in the MVP race if not winning outright, etc. Can't be all about the QB if having an ungodly shit tier D torpedos your whole season.

Lets say Andrews fumbled in quarter 1 or dropped a TD early in the game, but then Lamar ends the game with a bone headed interception on their final drive. Are you suggesting people would be blaming Andrews the same amount over Lamar in that situation? Because that's crazy. Lamar would be getting dragged through the coals completely if events played out that way, and rightfully so. The actual narrative is Lamar legitly has not played well in the playoffs previously, so any mistake he's going to make is going to be magnified that much more until/if he manages to actually achieve some new level of success/win a Super Bowl. Now that is a narrative based on facts, and he made mistakes in the game last night that hurt the team, but I don't think its crazy to point out the fact another player on his team made mistakes that more seriously threatened their chance of winning the game. Maybe that's not fair, but a kicker misses a kick in the 1st quarter, you stlll have 3 quarters to play/overcome those lost 3 points. If he misses a kick on the final play of the game, there's no coming back from that.

TL;DR - Lamar should absolutely shoulder blame for the turnovers, I don't think it's crazy for rational fans in the end to realize Andrews sold the bag when it mattered most, though
Click to expand...

Good convo. I can't dispute any of that. In fact, you could say that Minnesota's coaching failed the team since a weakness was found against the Lions and nothing was really changed for the next game.
 
Last edited:
Zzen

Zzen

Potato del Grande
2,950
3,640
Lee Corso is the Joe Biden of CFB. What the fuck is that guy doing out there at this point lol
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,598
15,910
Merrith said:
To a degree. Hell Josh Allen still gets dogged for being winless v Mahomes in the playoffs and many people just ignore the fact he handed his D a lead with 13 seconds left, never got the ball back, and lost the game.

Goff and Darnold are interesting comparisons. Goff had 4 turnovers, not 2. Goff didn't lead a 90+ yard drive to potentially tie the game up after those turnovers. Goff had Sam LaPorta his tight end make what may be the catch of the year (or 2nd best, behind that one other one I can't remember which WR had the insane one handed one, although frankly the LaPorta one may even top that) instead of dropping a potential game tying catch. Goff threw 2 picks in the red zone. Goff's fumble occurred on a 3rd and 1 at Washington's 17 yard line. Goff threw a Pick 6. Now I will say this...Goff isn't on their super banged up defense that gave up 38 points (plus a missed field goal which would have been 41), but yeah.

Sam Darnold is a pumpkin who's O line got wrecked by the Rams D line for 9 sacks. He's kind of whatever.

But my main point is there's levels to it, right? Goff's level of blame should clearly be higher, no? Obviously more than Darnold's, but still more than Lamar's.

I disagree with that narrative idea that it's just about QB's so everything is about protecting them since they have to sell them because it's live by the QB, die by the QB. People have spent so much time this year pointing out Joe Burrow with even a half way competetent defense is likely hosting a playoff game, in the MVP race if not winning outright, etc. Can't be all about the QB if having an ungodly shit tier D torpedos your whole season.

Lets say Andrews fumbled in quarter 1 or dropped a TD early in the game, but then Lamar ends the game with a bone headed interception on their final drive. Are you suggesting people would be blaming Andrews the same amount over Lamar in that situation? Because that's crazy. Lamar would be getting dragged through the coals completely if events played out that way, and rightfully so. The actual narrative is Lamar legitly has not played well in the playoffs previously, so any mistake he's going to make is going to be magnified that much more until/if he manages to actually achieve some new level of success/win a Super Bowl. Now that is a narrative based on facts, and he made mistakes in the game last night that hurt the team, but I don't think its crazy to point out the fact another player on his team made mistakes that more seriously threatened their chance of winning the game. Maybe that's not fair, but a kicker misses a kick in the 1st quarter, you stlll have 3 quarters to play/overcome those lost 3 points. If he misses a kick on the final play of the game, there's no coming back from that.

TL;DR - Lamar should absolutely shoulder blame for the turnovers, I don't think it's crazy for rational fans in the end to realize Andrews sold the bag when it mattered most, though
Click to expand...
I appreciate you being one of the more level-headed and relatively objective sports fans in this forum. Don't let the upcoming Commanders super bowl win go to your head!
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,650
7,273
DickTrickle said:
I appreciate you being one of the more level-headed and relatively objective sports fans in this forum. Don't let the upcoming Commanders super bowl win go to your head!
Click to expand...

The scary thing is, I'm starting to believe that outcome is possible. It shouldn't be, our O line is not good enough/too banged up, and our D really isn't good enough. But we have just enough playmakers and belief all working a tier or two above their level simply because of the Jayden Daniels effect that is going on right now.

Realistically Philly's roster is vastly more talented than ours, but they're just banged up enough, and there's just enough questions about Hurts' ability to beat a team throwing the ball that I think if we mostly sell out to limit Saquon as much as we can...we might be able to outscore them.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,650
7,273
zzeris said:
Good convo. I can't dispute any of that. In fact, you could say that Minnesota's coaching failed the team since a weakness was found against the Lions and nothing was really changed for the next game.
Click to expand...

That's actually a really interesting point, because I have a feeling O'Connell will get some coach of the year votes, and deservedly so. Honestly I've never seen a season where I felt like there's so many deserving coach of the year candidates, even if playoff results probably leave a sour taste to what seemed like impeccable resumes. But my guess would be they felt like Darnold just had an off game in Week 18, and maybe underestimated the Rams D a little bit.

They had a LOT of chances to score more points v Detroit, and Darnold just missed on some throws he had made pretty much all season. I probably was harsh on him, because he did have a pretty great year, 5th in yards and 5th in passing TD's. Truthfully part of the pumpkin assumption is the narrative and bias he's a failed pick. We all were waiting for it to happen, all season. That and the morbid fascination we all probably had watching someone cost themselves about $100M over the span of 2 weeks. What the Vikings decide to do at QB will be an interesting domino in the offseason...especially if Darnold decides he's starter worthy somewhere. Which to be fair, he probably might be.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,650
7,273
So, predictions

Washington over Philly, 31-27 (fuck it, why not at this point)
Buffalo over KC, 23-19 (Just please not a Philly/KC Super Bowl)
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users
You must log in or register to reply here.