Affluenza

Rezz_sl said:

No, this is good information. Hey Cad, in a ballpark estimate, what is your house worth? Round the numbers so we can just compare to this guy.
No rich people hate intended; you're saying your house is worth twice what this guy's two properties are worth combined, to give him a "not trump rich" status. I'm just curious what that number would be.

It's like comparing Borzak's numbers. Or Eomers. People clearly making way above the median, and their opinion on someone who comes from a wealthy standing and how they compare, overall. It's very interesting to me.

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If it's true that the family business is a sheet metal/HVAC shop doing around 15 million a year, then that's about the same ballpark as my company, which my bro and I each own less than half of. We do a bit larger volume, but our margins would be lower as 40% of our work is subbed out to HVAC, sprinkler, and other subs, and we don't put as much profit on those. The net margins for a company like that are probably in the 5-20% range, depending on exactly what they do and how good they are at it. That's a big spread I realize. But that's the nature of construction contractors. The vast, vast majority barely make any money after expenses/overhead. But the ones that do, do very well. And in general, the farther down the line they are, the higher the gross margins before overhead. A general contractor might have a gross margin of 3-5% with overhead only a percent or two lower. A large mechanical like me would have gross margins of 10-20%, with overhead of 5-10%. A small HVAC, sprinkler, or insulation contractor would probably have gross margins of 30-40%, but their overhead would probably be 15-25% as well.

Is a family that's taking home 500k-1m a year rich? Of course, by pretty much any definition they are. But that's pretty small potatoes compared to the truly rich. That kind of money is NOT enough to completely skew your perspectives on everything, unless you're already a terrible human being in the first place. That being said though, again the construction industry is full of idiots who start making in the mid six figure range when times are good or they get lucky and pick up a really good job who immediately run out and start splashing cash all over the place like there's no tomorrow, only to have to file for bankruptcy or lose half their assets a few years later when things lean up and they can't make the payments anymore. In Alberta, where the boom/bust cycle is ridiculously strong and seems to have a period of 5-8 years, it happens on a regular basis. One day Mr. Drywaller is driving around in a brand new Mercedes bragging about the new two million dollar house he's building, and the next you hear through the grapevine that no one's heard from him in a year or two, he'd developed a huge coke problem, his family is trying to pick up the pieces of the failing business, and so on.

Eomer_sl said:

Is a family that's taking home 500k-1m a year rich? Of course, by pretty much any definition they are. But that's pretty small potatoes compared to the truly rich. That kind of money is NOT enough to completely skew your perspectives on everything, unless you're already a terrible human being in the first place. That being said though, again the construction industry is full of idiots who start making in the mid six figure range when times are good or they get lucky and pick up a really good job who immediately run out and start splashing cash all over the place like there's no tomorrow, only to have to file for bankruptcy or lose half their assets a few years later when things lean up and they can't make the payments anymore. In Alberta, where the boom/bust cycle is ridiculously strong and seems to have a period of 5-8 years, it happens on a regular basis. One day Mr. Drywaller is driving around in a brand new Mercedes bragging about the new two million dollar house he's building, and the next you hear through the grapevine that no one's heard from him in a year or two, he'd developed a huge coke problem, his family is trying to pick up the pieces of the failing business, and so on.

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From what I read, it has a lot less to do with the amount of wealth than the spectacularly awful parenting that (relatively minor) wealth enabled. It was a parenting issue rather than a wealth issue, and the "affluenza" claim was retarded.

Hrmm, it might not be hedge fund rich but it's rich enough that you'll live in the same neighborhoods as all the other top 1%'ers and hang out with their kids and such. Whether your the bottom of the rung or the top if you all run in the same social circles you'll have the same ideals, experiences and awareness of the world.

Khane_sl said:

Whether your the bottom of the rung or the top if you all run in the same social circles you'll have the same ideals, experiences and awareness of the world.

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I couldn't disagree with this more, especially the comment on ideals. You honestly think that someone's level of wealth determines their "ideals", and that people within the same strata of wealth all share the same ideals? That's a pretty fucked up opinion, in all honesty.

Eomer_sl said:

I couldn't disagree with this more, especially the comment on ideals. You honestly think that someone's level of wealth determines their "ideals", and that people within the same strata of wealth all share the same ideals? That's a pretty fucked up opinion, in all honesty.

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No, I'm saying this kid can easily run in the same social circles as people who do and we tend to gravitate toward like minded individuals as human beings.

You on the other hand are the one talking about exactly how rich someone is being the major contributor to this "Affluenza" phenomenon by stating he isn't rich enough for that to happen. As if there's some richness threshold.

Khane_sl said:

Hrmm, it might not be hedge fund rich but it's rich enough that you'll live in the same neighborhoods as all the other top 1%'ers and hang out with their kids and such. Whether your the bottom of the rung or the top if you all run in the same social circles you'll have the same ideals, experiences and awareness of the world.

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Cad lives with the 1%ers in Highland Park. This family lived out in BFE, probably to be close to their business. If he was in a 1%er enclave, then my understanding of DFW has been turned upside-down.

Also, if you read the article, his closest friends were a guy that was enlisting in the Army (who he was throwing the party for on truck-murder night) and a guy that worked with him in his Dad's shop. I'm not seeing the 1%er cocoon.

Well just to be clear Affluenze isn't a thing. It's shitty parenting. I'm just saying his parents income is certainly enough that he could know and surround himself with kids who's wealth has made life... privileged. Not specifically talking about if it happened to him, but imo that kind of yearly income is certainly more than enough, considering ~440k/yr makes you a top 1% nationwide.

Khane_sl said:

Well just to be clear Affluenze isn't a thing. It's shitty parenting. I'm just saying his parents income is certainly enough that he could know and surround himself with kids who's wealth has made life... privileged. Not specifically talking about if it happened to him, but imo that kind of yearly income is certainly more than enough, considering ~440k/yr makes you a top 1% nationwide.

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Perhaps he could, but he didn't.

But to your point, an income in the $500K-$1M range is plenty to hang with rich people in DFW. You probably won't be buddying up with Jerry Jones, but that money goes a lot further than in NYC for sure.

Is there a version of this disease where you can be so poor you don't understand right from wrong?

Drakurii_sl said:

Is there a version of this disease where you can be so poor you don't understand right from wrong?

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Yes Angela Merkel claims all her recent imports have it.

He did go to a private school, so that breaks down physical location a bit as far as who associates with. It's a cheaper private school in the sticks but who knows who attended.

That article misses the part where his parents were only paying 1200/mo for a 20K/mo rehab clinic, the state of Texas picked up the rest of the tab.

Voyce_sl said:

Kills 4 people.
10 years probation
Violates his probation - drinking under age
Flees the country
Gets caught
2 years prison

Justice?

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The judge also said the lawyers have two weeks to come up with arguments against the punishment, that its not set in stone.