Ancient Civilizations
- Thread starter Kiroy
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 73,017
- 214,303
they were in tombs and graves, under ground in dirt.
Italian archaeologists open 2,600-year-old tomb for first time, find wealthy family's treasures
Excavators discovered a trove of artifacts, including traditionally ancient Greek and Roman vases and a bronze cauldron, in the Etruscan tomb discovered at the Osteria Necropolis in Vulci.
www.cbsnews.com
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,796
- 109,248
They were buried in sand in the desert? IDK how granite weathers. But I think its more profound than that. With all skepticism applied you can only discern that the specimens they analyzed predated at least the 19th century. As they were gathering dust in some aristocrat's family vault or whatever and they had it on record that their ancestor acquired these on an expedition to Egypt in the 19th century. And these were just the one's the team was looking at. The Museum of Cairo and other places have other examples from the region.
Just looking at that at face value where did these originate then? If they are in fact Egyptian it communicates that Egyptians had an level of tooling they were not supposed to have and were able to do things they shouldn't have been able to do. If all of these finely formed granite objects were made in the modern period in the 18th century or earlier, who would have had the skill then and why would they only make weird hoax vases to confuse anthropologists? It just defies reason they wouldn't make big money off the skills they had and there would be more contemporary examples from the modern period that these were being made.
If they are in fact 21st century hoaxes again, what do you do about the ones that the Cairo museum has after you discard this lot as hoaxes?
I mean if you got any better ideas I am totally open to them and I am sure most would be.
What further compounds it is that these are of varying sizes so they didn't serve a single uniform purpose. If they were Egyptian, something so finely wrought was not used for the highest purpose a vessel could be used. Which would be a like a Canoptic Jar for the Pharoah's tomb or something.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 73,017
- 214,303
of course thats a possibility, but while i believe that they are from an older civ, i feel like saying that is just passing the buck onto somebody else while not answering the real question. how did they make these? what was the process they used and how were they able to achieve perfection on so many things?
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
- 80,404
- 160,951
Thats the main thing that sets off my bullshit sensor
Not just the pots but everything else that is touted as "it couldnt be built/made with technology of that time" whether it comes to blocks, obelisks, household objects, funerary items, etc.
We can find all these examples of what was impossible to make at the time, but we can't find a single example of how. Not a single tool, not a single clay tablet with instructions, nothing.
What are the odds?
- 6,331
- 32,489
It's a fair point. When I hear this stuff I always think about a story from about 15 years ago, the workers in a metal shop were told that they would be replaced soon for high tech machines with greater precision because that degree of precision was needed for the metalwork of the future. After installation of the initial equipment the business owners quickly found out that the guys in the shop could produce almost anything with higher degrees of precision than the computer built stuff. The computer aided stuff was for higher quantity.
I'm just saying that we shouldn't ever hand wave away the idea that a skilled person with hand tools can create amazing stuff. I think the evidence suggests though that the older Egyptian stuff was likely from an older civilization since the vases etc produced by then just after that were of significantly lower quality.
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,796
- 109,248
The only thing that confuses that is that nobody is contesting that the vases they have come from at least the 18th century and have been sitting in a vault in some British country house since then. That guy talks about how many of the existing artifacts like those big black statues and the Serrappeum giant black boxes also come from that old civilization. But later civilizations like the Egyptians just usurped them. Which as a concept I find completely believable. The Kartoosh of Ramses II is so ubiquitous and seemingly on everything in Egypt that it is plainly recognizable lol.Thats the main thing that sets off my bullshit sensor
Not just the pots but everything else that is touted as "it couldnt be built/made with technology of that time" whether it comes to blocks, obelisks, household objects, funerary items, etc.
We can find all these examples of what was impossible to make at the time, but we can't find a single example of how. Not a single tool, not a single clay tablet with instructions, nothing.
What are the odds?
Chris
seems to me an ancient civilization that came to the conclusions we came to in the modern period, just thousands of years ago, is just as plausible in this case. I discard anything with aliens mentioned outright. I think it is more difficult for me to process the idea that some ancient civilization went down a wildly different tech-tree path or something like that.
...
Goonsquad Officer
- 6,113
- 14,436
My grampa was a machinist. He said he was asked to make a part that was to be used in a space capsule or some shit. He asked the tolerance for precision. They told him none. Needs to be perfect. He made it on their 60s Era lathe/machine (not sure what he did it on)
- 3
...
Goonsquad Officer
- 6,113
- 14,436
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,436
- -10,732
They probably had some of that stuff and it didn't survive.
We mass produce this shit today, but back then the master craftsman probably had some secret one of a kind tools that were passed down until some invader broke them/melted them down.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 73,017
- 214,303
now who's making wild assumptions? what you're suggesting is considered "ancient high technology". there were no precision tools back then. no drawings of precision tools back then. none of that stuff existed according to mainstream science. you are now in the same league as those ancient alien whackjobs you think we all are.
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,436
- -10,732
Being open to them having some sort of crafting wheel or a single iron tool is a bit different from thinking that the Great Pyramid magnified sound waves to levitate rocks, or that they had magic handbags. There is a spectrum here.
I'm thinking about stuff like this that has been found: Sword of Goujian - Wikipedia
Antikythera mechanism - Wikipedia
They appear to be fairly unique pieces and not found everywhere, was probably closely guarded knowledge.
until we find it, it is all conjecture.
there are VAST swathes of relatively inaccessible land(mostly due to political theatre or lawlessness) that- if those old old maps are to be believed- had cities there,- the sahara.
what if all the statues, the vases etc originated from those areas.
unfortunately the mainstream scholars are not going what if, they are essentially plugging their ears and going la la la not hearing this on any potentially valid alternative. until investigated fully, we will never know. we are finding ~12 thousand year old stone village remnants in turkey who knows what will turn up in the next 100 years.
there are VAST swathes of relatively inaccessible land(mostly due to political theatre or lawlessness) that- if those old old maps are to be believed- had cities there,- the sahara.
what if all the statues, the vases etc originated from those areas.
unfortunately the mainstream scholars are not going what if, they are essentially plugging their ears and going la la la not hearing this on any potentially valid alternative. until investigated fully, we will never know. we are finding ~12 thousand year old stone village remnants in turkey who knows what will turn up in the next 100 years.
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,796
- 109,248
I don't doubt Egyptians had primitive lathes (hand powered or something) but there are a good amount of these things that survived to modern day. I doubt that a super secret stonemason shop could have hidden their supercool dude lathe and you would find other examples of items created using primitive lathes and less perfect results laying around.
Also, these prime examples of perfect tolerances weren't even used for royal tomb shit were they?
Also, these prime examples of perfect tolerances weren't even used for royal tomb shit were they?
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 73,017
- 214,303
those pieces were in the more modern age of 2500 years ago. those vases were already 2500-10000 years old when they were made. Stonehenge, probably not far from where you live is a testament to ancient tech and scientific consensus not being on the same level. still dont know how those blue stones got there.Being open to them having some sort of crafting wheel or a single iron tool is a bit different from thinking that the Great Pyramid magnified sound waves to levitate rocks, or that they had magic handbags. There is a spectrum here.
I'm thinking about stuff like this that has been found: Sword of Gou
Being open to them having some sort of crafting wheel or a single iron tool is a bit different from thinking that the Great Pyramid magnified sound waves to levitate rocks, or that they had magic handbags. There is a spectrum here.
I'm thinking about stuff like this that has been found: Sword of Goujian - Wikipedia
Antikythera mechanism - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
They appear to be fairly unique pieces and not found everywhere, was probably closely guarded knowledge.
jian - Wikipedia
Antikythera mechanism - Wikipedia
They appear to be fairly unique pieces and not found everywhere, was probably closely guarded knowledge.
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,436
- -10,732
They dragged them. Probably had some sort of wheels or rollers to help that didn't survive so there's no evidence for them.