Andor

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

mkopec said:
Im not saying it was a GOOD reason, just that they tried to explain why.

No, that was a good reason.

But even if droids were cheaper than prison labor, they'd still have to pay for the droids. They'd have to account for them at some point, not so with prisoners.

The post-credit scene explains why the prisoners were better for this application, and it wasn't the cost. It was because they needed to keep the project as secret as possible. It was a very clever resolution to the old question of how the Empire was able to accomplish that whole thing in secret.

Ossoi · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
No, that was a good reason.

But even if droids were cheaper than prison labor, they'd still have to pay for the droids. They'd have to account for them at some point, not so with prisoners.

The post-credit scene explains why the prisoners were better for this application, and it wasn't the cost. It was because they needed to keep the project as secret as possible. It was a very clever resolution to the old question of how the Empire was able to accomplish that whole thing in secret.

the droids don't clock off, get drunk and run their mouth at the bar.

They could easily have built a super automated production site with non sentient droids that ran 24/7

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

Ossoi said:
the droids don't clock off, get drunk and run their mouth at the bar.

They could easily have built a super automated production site with non sentient droids that ran 24/7

In this universe droids get depressed and start rebellions at funerals.

But prisoners get murdered by floors for free.

Ossoi · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
In this universe droids get depressed and start rebellions at funerals.

But prisoners get murdered by floors for free.

For someone accused of being a bot you should know what non sentient means

Mist · Dec 3, 2022

Slaves will always be cheaper than robots. Human life is incredibly cheap for its adaptability.

Also, tech in Star Wars is weird and kinda sucks. Don't overthink it.

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

Ossoi said:
For someone accused of being a bot you should know what non sentient means

Whatever that means. Fact is, the premise works. Gilroy wrote the whole arc around it: the Empire could only create its ultimate weapon in secret with the one resource it knew no one would care about: criminals.

Droids will always cost money, prisoners will always be a liability.

Mist · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
Whatever that means. Fact is, the premise works. Gilroy wrote the whole arc around it: the Empire could only create its ultimate weapon in secret with the one resource it knew no one would care about: criminals.

Droids will always cost money, prisoners will always be a liability.

And the prisoners never got to go home and tell anyone, they just got shipped to other Death Star production facilities.

It makes sense as much as anything in Star Wars makes sense.

Furry · Dec 3, 2022

I dunno where people get the idea that droids wouldn’t talk in a series where we’ve had people applying techniques to make droids talk multiple times.

mkopec · Dec 3, 2022

I mean common sense would dictate that if they could make sentient droids that could think for themselves, like most droids do in this universe, one would think they could also make some dumb ones that only did specific tasks. Because you cannot have sentient bots without the evolution from dumb ones.

Ossoi · Dec 3, 2022

Furry said:
I dunno where people get the idea that droids wouldn’t talk in a series where we’ve had people applying techniques to make droids talk multiple times.

try responding to the complete post you're replying to, not just half of it.

I don't know if you guys are aware, but we have automated production lines on this planet. The empire could easily have had a fully automated factory staffed with only a few loyal essential maintenance workers. Shit, they probably didn't even need those.

mkopec said:
I mean common sense would dictate that if they could make sentient droids that could think for themselves, like most droids do in this universe, one would think they could also make some dumb ones that only did specific tasks. Because you cannot have sentient bots without the evolution from dumb ones.

yeah, people here acting like every droid in the galaxy was a renegade like R2-D2

"According to background material, most droids lack true sentience and are given processing abilities sufficient only to carry out their assigned function. However, over time droids may develop sentience on their own as they accumulate experience. Periodic memory wipes can prevent this from happening, but those who manage to escape this fate will begin to develop their own personalities.[13]"

mkopec · Dec 3, 2022

Ossoi said:
try responding to the complete post you're replying to, not just half of it.

I don't know if you guys are aware, but we have automated production lines on this planet. The empire could easily have had a fully automated factory staffed with only a few loyal essential maintenance workers. Shit, they probably didn't even need those.

Also they could have used compartmentalization as well, this production line makes part XXXX and this other one makes part YYYY on another planet. And no production staff ever knows what the fuck they are making the parts for.

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

mkopec said:
I mean common sense would dictate that if they could make sentient droids that could think for themselves, like most droids do in this universe, one would think they could also make some dumb ones that only did specific tasks. Because you cannot have sentient bots without the evolution from dumb ones.

Sure, but would it be cheaper than prisoners I can kill with the floor?

Even if you just needed to optimize say, welding a simple joint, it will always be easier and cheaper with slave labor than with technology. You can almost certainly automate that at scale, but would it be cheaper than free prison labor that you can control with a kill switch? Or with adding chocolate flavor to their daily fuel source?

You can overthink this as much as you want, but you don't need star wars technology for it. If you have a free labor resource that is just costing you money right now, it will always be cheaper than whatever technological solution you can come up with.

You just need to have no limits on the application of violence.

Mist · Dec 3, 2022

Furry said:
I dunno where people get the idea that droids wouldn’t talk in a series where we’ve had people applying techniques to make droids talk multiple times.

Droids frequently never fucking shut up in Star Wars lol.

mkopec · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
Sure, but would it be cheaper than prisoners I can kill with the floor?

Even if you just needed to optimize say, welding a simple joint, it will always be easier and cheaper with slave labor than with technology. You can almost certainly automate that at scale, but would it be cheaper than free prison labor that you can control with a kill switch? Or with adding chocolate flavor to their daily fuel source?

You can overthink this as much as you want, but you don't need star wars technology for it. If you have a free labor resource that is just costing you money right now, it will always be cheaper than whatever technological solution you can come up with.

You just need to have no limits on the application of violence.

Meh not necessarily. In a long enough timeline a fully automated factory running 24/7 would outperform the shit out of any human slave company. And the quality would be top notch and percentages of rejects would be way lower. Plus you have to feed the prisoners, house the prisoners, guard the prisoners, deal with revolts, kill off the offenders and replace them with new ones that need training. And all the other bullshit that goes along with prison labor. Which is 100% less efficient than just an automated factory using 100% of the space to make space widgets 24/7.

Ossoi · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
Sure, but would it be cheaper than prisoners I can kill with the floor?

Even if you just needed to optimize say, welding a simple joint, it will always be easier and cheaper with slave labor than with technology. You can almost certainly automate that at scale, but would it be cheaper than free prison labor that you can control with a kill switch? Or with adding chocolate flavor to their daily fuel source?

You can overthink this as much as you want, but you don't need star wars technology for it. If you have a free labor resource that is just costing you money right now, it will always be cheaper than whatever technological solution you can come up with.

You just need to have no limits on the application of violence.

what kind of bizarro take is this? This is Star Wars, where droids are running around everywhere. From Battle Droids to Protocol Droids, mouse droids, garbage droids etc etc

You think Empire struggles for cash or what?

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

Ossoi said:
what kind of bizarro take is this? This is Star Wars, where droids are running around everywhere. From Battle Droids to Protocol Droids, mouse droids, garbage droids etc etc

You think Empire struggles for cash or what?

It's the Star Wars take: the one where the very first movie shows the foster family of a Jedi orphan haggles with a bunch of Jawas over the cost and quality of those droids.

Like it or not, Star Wars establishes a value to droids and their labor. They're plentiful, sure, but from the first 10 minutes of the first movie, it's established that their value impacts the lives of the people inhabit that universe.

Prisoners? Not so much.

mkopec · Dec 3, 2022

YEah I dont know if you ever actually witnessed the welding robots we have here on earth (which is like star wars minus some 1000 yrs or some shit in technology and programming) doing welds that no human could ever reproduce 100% of the time, again, running 24/7 with no breaks and 100% perfect welds.

mkopec · Dec 3, 2022

phisey said:
It's the Star Wars take: the one where the very first movie shows the foster family of a Jedi orphan haggles with a bunch of Jawas over the cost and quality of those droids.

Like it or not, Star Wars establishes a value to droids and their labor. They're plentiful, sure, but from the first 10 minutes of the first movie, it's established that their value impacts the lives of the people inhabit that universe.

Prisoners? Not so much.

LOL in solo they showed bots as slave labor in the mines.

phisey · Dec 3, 2022

mkopec said:
YEah I dont know if you ever actually witnessed the welding robots we have here on earth (which is like star wars minus some 1000 yrs or some shit in technology and programming) doing welds that no human could ever reproduce 100% of the time, again, running 24/7 with no breaks and 100% perfect welds.

Are they cheaper than Dayquan serving 20 years for slanging crack?

Mist · Dec 3, 2022

Star Wars is weird though. Technology is weird, part archaic, part advanced, most worlds are very resource constrained, and galaxy-scale logistics is actually somewhat realistically very difficult due to shipping and trade politics.

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