Are you smarter than a 4th grader?

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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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Siddar said:
They need to know it because for some reason they have stopped teaching kids the multiplication tables.
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Forcing kids to memorize multiplication tables is racist and discriminates against non-whites who cant actually memorize them. Except for the asians. Who are already mastering calculus while everyone else is trying to solve these problems without dividing.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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k^M said:
I was expecting that test to have one of those BS equations where the answer changes depending on whether you do multiplication or division first. This math is strange, but curious to see how it turns out in the long run.
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Umm what? The only time in your scenario the answer would change is if you didnt follow the order of operations correctly. PEMDAS is your friend.
 
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k^M

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Sanrith Descartes said:
Umm what? The only time in your scenario the answer would change is if you didnt follow the order of operations correctly. PEMDAS is your friend.
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I would agree, but there are hilarious nerd debates to troll that involve an equation like this 6 ÷ 2(1+2) = ?. Different calculators give different answers, because of how they interpret the order whether you do it as 6/2*3, 6/(2*3), or (6/2)*3

Some versions of pemdas assume multi/div are equal so you go left to right, others multiply first as absolute. Not a math teacher or even care a whole lot, but you can troll to epic levels bringing that debate to a group of nerds.
 
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Borzak

Borzak

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Everyone knows math is opressive and racist. Not finalized but to even be on the agenda to discuss. Seattle used to be home of Boeing and they did a lot of math I'm pretty sure. Maybe this is why Boeing offshored some of the engineering.

www.educationviews.org

Rantz: Seattle Schools document say math is oppressive, US government racist | Education News

Seattle Superintendent explains math as a racist study used to oppress students — and if you correct a student’s faulty math logic, you’re guilty.
www.educationviews.org www.educationviews.org

The committee will meet throughout the next year in order to meet a September 1, 2020 deadline to offer up their final recommendations. The Superintendent’s office notes that the document is a review of the work done by districts so far, but not necessarily a finalized recommendation list, which isn’t yet due.
 
maskedmelon

maskedmelon

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You use the bar method in problem one.

5.) 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 48 = 16 + 16 + 16

6.) 72 / 2 = n * 9
=> 72 = n * 9 * 2
=>72 = n * 36
=> 36 + 36 = 72
n=2
 
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Gravel

Gravel

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Captain Suave said:
Let's not kid ourselves. Most people are math idiots now. I run into people in a professional setting in data-driven careers who clearly failed to absorb critical core concepts of numeracy.
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Yep. Work with engineers, software developers, and financial people for the bulk of my interactions and almost everyone is just shit at math.

Heck, my wife has an applied math degree and she's horrendous at math.
 
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Lenardo

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I cannot do 6 without technically doing division since reducing fractions is division

72÷4=n×9 = 72=9n×4 = 72=36n = 72÷36=n then reduce the fraction 72/36=36/18=18/9=6/3=2 the question will the teacher countil reducing fractions as division.

5
12x4=16×3 = simple math without multiplying the way they want it.. 12+12+12+12=16+16+16 = 48=48
 
Mudcrush Durtfeet

Mudcrush Durtfeet

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After that lesson of the 'new math' they then focus on the normal way to do it. All the 'new math hate' topics are really just click bait quality.
 
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iannis

iannis

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Lenardo said:
I cannot do 6 without technically doing division since reducing fractions is division

72÷4=n×9 = 72=9n×4 = 72=36n = 72÷36=n then reduce the fraction 72/36=36/18=18/9=6/3=2 the question will the teacher countil reducing fractions as division.

5
12x4=16×3 = simple math without multiplying the way they want it.. 12+12+12+12=16+16+16 = 48=48
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It's just division because it's quicker. You can achieve the same result with multiplication of fractions, it just takes the extra step that division is shortcutting. Either way you're factoring.

If factoring itself is impermissible as a form of division then it's just time to start guessing. Reduce this expression without reducing it.
 
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Creslin

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New math is
Gravel said:
Yep. Work with engineers, software developers, and financial people for the bulk of my interactions and almost everyone is just shit at math.

Heck, my wife has an applied math degree and she's horrendous at math.
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same experience here, its what comes of a generation who memorized tables instead of learning why.
 
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Borzak

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Until just recently you had to show your work for ASME (American Society of Mechanial Engineers) calculations for pressure vessels. I think they did away with that.
 
Aldarion

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How to best teach anything is a complex subject without obvious right or wrong answers. So I could be entirely wrong here.

But what I do know is that when I meet an adult who obviously failed to memorize the multiplication tables it irrevocably affects my opinion of their intelligence. Whipping out your phone to do basic arithmetic. I see adults do this and I feel like I've just met an illiterate who just admitted in public theyve never been able to read.

People are horrible at the most basic math. Maybe stuff like this will help, but I doubt it. Memorization worked, full stop. Why do we replace an educational strategy that worked with a new, unproven one? (the studies that come out of the field of pedagogy are largely self-reported bullshit rather than genuine scholarship)

I will say, in my kids' school this kind of thing appears to be largely used as someone described earlier. Show this this first, then sped most of the time doing things the normal way.
 
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Chris

Chris

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I'm a Math teacher.

Asking kids to do simple problems a specific weird way (like common core) is to get 5-10 year olds to understand WHY the methods work rather the just memorizing an abstract algorithm that "just works".

The problem is that more advanced kids taught by shitty teachers don't understand why they are being asked to do it that way, so you get the memes about it. I taught 11-16 and we didn't require specific methods like that to be used.

Times tables are out of fashion for a similar reason, you get kids who remember that 11x12 is 132 but they couldn't apply it to a practical problem because they don't known what multiplication actually is.

Like everything it's about how well the method was being taught.
 
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AladainAF

AladainAF

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Chris said:
I'm a Math teacher.

Asking kids to do simple problems a specific weird way (like common core) is to get 5-10 year olds to understand WHY the methods work rather the just memorizing an abstract algorithm that "just works".

The problem is that more advanced kids taught by shitty teachers don't understand why they are being asked to do it that way, so you get the memes about it. I taught 11-16 and we didn't require specific methods like that to be used.

Times tables are out of fashion for a similar reason, you get kids who remember that 11x12 is 132 but they couldn't apply it to a practical problem because they don't known what multiplication actually is.

Like everything it's about how well the method was being taught.
Click to expand...

TBH, I don't understand this. You don't need to understand WHY electrical circuits work if you're going to be repairing computers. I get the general IDEA you're going for here, but traditionally we've always been taught the why anyways, I was when I was in first grade in 1981. The why can be explained in simple steps. But I think by adding multiple layers of complexity in this, you're not really helping anything. What took 2-3 steps in 1981 takes 5-6 today, despite the solution being the same as well as the "why".

My son is in 2nd grade, and thankfully they seem to be teaching the why in a common sense manner without all the added bloat.

Teacher Note said:
Hi 2nd Grade Parents- A Friendly Math Update-
We are working on "Regrouping" for the next three weeks. What is that? We called it "Borrowing" when I was in school...
We are working on double digit addition and soon subtraction, then triple digit addition... Some students may have been coming home with some extra work, some because I wanted them to have more review, and some because they wanted it. Here is the way I have been teaching them to "set up" the problem. These become tricky because you have to do a series of steps to solve the sum. The two most common mistakes are starting to add in the tens place, or not adding the digit that they carried over to the tens place (we call it "going up the elevator"). I try to encourage students to SET UP THE PROBLEM and not be so quick to solve it first. We are working hard in math and I appreciate all their hard work! As we move forward...
Here are some ways you can help:
1. Math facts-the quicker they know their facts, the quicker they can add up the columns. It's okay to use different strategies to add (number line, fingers, pictures), but it slows them down a bit. Memorization of math facts is our goal for the end of the year.
What if my kid doesn't want to practice math facts? We do some here through songs and computer games, but they can also:
1. Create their own flashcards, and have a sibling or friend practice with them.
2. You can play "Battle" with them with playing cards (or a friend). Each player picks 2 cards from the stack, higher sum wins and they take their partners cards. Face cards are 10, Jokers are 0 and Aces are 1. Please teach shuffling so I don't have to! Go quick, quick..
We have already logged onto to "X-Tra Math" where they try to beat the teacher in math facts in 3 seconds. This is not a favorite for some students (others love it) but it will get them better with their automaticity of math facts and not relying on their fingers so much.

1572207935064.png
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iannis

iannis

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Chris said:
I'm a Math teacher.

Asking kids to do simple problems a specific weird way (like common core) is to get 5-10 year olds to understand WHY the methods work rather the just memorizing an abstract algorithm that "just works".

The problem is that more advanced kids taught by shitty teachers don't understand why they are being asked to do it that way, so you get the memes about it. I taught 11-16 and we didn't require specific methods like that to be used.

Times tables are out of fashion for a similar reason, you get kids who remember that 11x12 is 132 but they couldn't apply it to a practical problem because they don't known what multiplication actually is.

Like everything it's about how well the method was being taught.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but does that really apply to simple linear stuff?

It for sure applies to geometrical math. Once someone showed me the Greek Square and what polynomials are meant to actually represent it made one HELL of a lot more sense. Memorizing solutions without that very simple foundation seemed like an excercise in pointlessness. I mean I did it, but it was dumb, and I didn't do it particularly well. Because it was dumb.

But for simple line stuff, the solution sort of is the problem. Or maybe it just seems that way to me because i'm not 11 years old anymore.
 
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Chris

Chris

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AladainAF said:
TBH, I don't understand this. You don't need to understand WHY electrical circuits work if you're going to be repairing computers.
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This is the key to the whole thing.

Yes, computer repairmen don't need to know why circuits work.

But do you aim education at training children to do relatively low skilled work like that, or aim it at them doing higher paid higher skilled work like designing those circuits?

Yeah let's have our kids only learn how to repair Chinese made and designed electronics, what could go wrong?

I had students ask me all the time why they needed to learn algebra and geometry when they were just going to be working in retail like their parents. Why the fuck am I teaching you how to do retail when any moron can do?
 
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AladainAF

AladainAF

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Chris said:
But do you aim education at training children to do relatively low skilled work like that, or aim it at them doing higher paid higher skilled work like designing those circuits?
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I would think you aim it in a general sense. I am okay with teaching the basics of everything, but math today largely over complicates the basics.
 
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Chris

Chris

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AladainAF said:
I would think you aim it in a general sense. I am okay with teaching the basics of everything, but math today largely over complicates the basics.
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You may have a point, there's a movement in the UK to make things more traditional.
 
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