Are you smarter than a 4th grader?

fred sanford · Oct 24, 2019

A coworker of mine shared his nephew's 4th grade homework with me to see if I could answer it. Apparently his parents couldn't solve numbers 5 and 6 so they turned it in blank. Five is easy by changing the multiplication to addition but I can't solve the sixth one without division. The closest I can get without division is 9n=18 which of course requires division to get to just n=2. Anyone out there got an idea? Since this is a relative of a coworker, odds are I'll never find out the answer from the teacher so it's going to be a minor annoyance to me.

Now before all of the math geniuses come out to play, READ THE QUESTION, YOU CANNOT USE DIVISION. Every would be person my coworker has shown this to just looks at the equation and solves it with division, which defeats the purpose.

Gurgeh · Oct 24, 2019

fred sanford said:
A coworker of mine shared his nephew's 4th grade homework with me to see if I could answer it. Apparently his parents couldn't solve numbers 5 and 6 so they turned it in blank. Five is easy by changing the multiplication to addition but I can't solve the sixth one without division. The closest I can get without division is 9n=18 which of course requires division to get to just n=2. Anyone out there got an idea? Since this is a relative of a coworker, odds are I'll never find out the answer from the teacher so it's going to be a minor annoyance to me.

Now before all of the math geniuses come out to play, READ THE QUESTION, YOU CANNOT USE DIVISION. Every would be person my coworker has shown this to just looks at the equation and solves it with division, which defeats the purpose.

View attachment 227885

72=9*4*2
Then simply, I guess that's it

Moogalak · Oct 24, 2019

Our family is already running into this new math at the 1st grade level. Shit like 9 + _ = 15. 1st grade and they're teaching algebra, but the kid is taught to use the number line and count the places between 9 and 15.

Animale · Oct 24, 2019

fred sanford said:
A coworker of mine shared his nephew's 4th grade homework with me to see if I could answer it. Apparently his parents couldn't solve numbers 5 and 6 so they turned it in blank. Five is easy by changing the multiplication to addition but I can't solve the sixth one without division. The closest I can get without division is 9n=18 which of course requires division to get to just n=2. Anyone out there got an idea? Since this is a relative of a coworker, odds are I'll never find out the answer from the teacher so it's going to be a minor annoyance to me.

Now before all of the math geniuses come out to play, READ THE QUESTION, YOU CANNOT USE DIVISION. Every would be person my coworker has shown this to just looks at the equation and solves it with division, which defeats the purpose.

View attachment 227885

Think these questions are aimed to force the student to play with number patterns, not just find the right solution.

9x8 = 72
2x4= 8
4x18 = 72
9x2 =18

Then write a short essay where you can use these four equations to find the answer.

fred sanford · Oct 24, 2019

Gurgeh said:
72=9*4*2
Then simply, I guess that's it

That comes out to 72=72 which is true but it doesn't solve for n

Animale said:
Think these questions are aimed to force the student to play with number patterns, not just find the right solution.

9x8 = 72
2x4= 8
4x18 = 72
9x2 =18

Then write a short essay where you can use these four equations to find the answer.

This is the closest I can think to the right answer is that they are basically asking the kid to solve it, then right a new problem that provides the same answer like n=1+1. Any parents out there in this grade range have experience with what types of answers these people are looking for? Perhaps I'm over thinking it. My kids are in 1st grade and preschool so we're only up to adding and subtracting.

Captain Suave · Oct 24, 2019

Without knowing the intended methods:

5 (no multiplication): Factor 12 and 16. Result is 4 x 4 x 3 = 4 x 4 x 3, therefore true.

6 (no division): Be a smartass and multiply by the reciprocals.

Animale · Oct 24, 2019

As far as I understand, the goal of “new” math is to understand numbers and their connections. Just plug and chug (old math) has been shown to not do that.

Again, the goal if the exercise isn’t primarily to just find the right answer, but to examine the process of how numbers change and are related by patterns. That can be hard for folks to get... the correct answer is secondary for these type of questions.

Captain Suave · Oct 24, 2019

Animale said:
As far as I understand, the goal of “new” math is to understand numbers and their connections. Just plug and chug (old math) has been shown to not do that.

Again, the goal if the exercise isn’t primarily to just find the right answer, but to examine the process of how numbers change and are related by patterns. That can be hard for folks to get... the correct answer is secondary for these type of questions.

For all the popular hate about new math, I've actually been fairly impressed with how my second grader is learning. He's slower on getting the answer and occasionally has trouble with "simple" questions, but is clearly developing a better conceptual understanding of the principles than I had at that age. I think it will serve him well when he gets to more advanced applications.

Ravishing · Oct 24, 2019

It's a poorly worded question imo.
Need to know what the lesson is to understand how the answer should be formatted.

Teachers do stupid shit like this all the time. But if you see the lesson it's a no brainer. I think Animale's answer is closest to what they want and is probably accurate.

fred sanford · Oct 24, 2019

That's going to drive me crazy when my kids get higher up. I'll just have to exercise restraint. I plan on letting my kids do their own work and give them guidance on any that they can't answer. I've already had instances where I know my son got one problem wrong and let him hand it in that way. I'm not going to correct him unless he get's them all wrong, just help where he needs it. I probably would have just thrown in the towel and guided him to say n=1+1 for #6

Captain Suave · Oct 24, 2019

Ravishing said:
Need to know what the lesson is to understand how the answer should be formatted.

Yeah. If you read the preceding lesson the solution is generally trivial. They're just looking for a particular method to which we weren't privvy. People outside the class aren't the target audience.

darkmiasma · Oct 24, 2019

fred sanford said:
A coworker of mine shared his nephew's 4th grade homework with me to see if I could answer it. Apparently his parents couldn't solve numbers 5 and 6 so they turned it in blank. Five is easy by changing the multiplication to addition but I can't solve the sixth one without division. The closest I can get without division is 9n=18 which of course requires division to get to just n=2. Anyone out there got an idea? Since this is a relative of a coworker, odds are I'll never find out the answer from the teacher so it's going to be a minor annoyance to me.

Now before all of the math geniuses come out to play, READ THE QUESTION, YOU CANNOT USE DIVISION. Every would be person my coworker has shown this to just looks at the equation and solves it with division, which defeats the purpose.

View attachment 227885

just like the row on question 3, do that for 9 until you add them to 72, then group them into 4 groups. That will give you the number.

Sanrith Descartes · Oct 24, 2019

Captain Suave said:
Without knowing the intended methods:

5 (no multiplication): Factor 12 and 16. Result is 4 x 4 x 3 = 4 x 4 x 3, therefore true.

6 (no division): Be a smartass and multiply by the reciprocals.

This. 72÷4 = 72 × 1/4 then simplify by factoring out the 4 from both sides. 18 x 1/1 = 18
Solve for x

Kuro · Oct 24, 2019

I may not be smarter than a fourth grader but thanks to the FoH forums I'm reasonably certain I could take roughly 28 of them in a fight.

Lanx · Oct 24, 2019

Kuro said:
I may not be smarter than a fourth grader but thanks to the FoH forums I'm reasonably certain I could take roughly 28 of them in a fight.

how long ago was this? you're older now and kids these days are ingesting more HFCS, so they're beefier

mkopec · Oct 24, 2019

This is shit math is what it is. I remember my kid plotting charts and doing spreadsheets and shit to multiply 2, 3 digit numbers and shit. I showed him the old school way and he was like "Why do they make it so hard"

Lambourne · Oct 24, 2019

Yea this looks like a waste of time, it's oversimplified to the point that it's just going to hamper them when learning the proper way later on.

How is learning a "bar model" going to be of use for anything even slightly more complex?

Siddar · Oct 24, 2019

Their trying to raise math geniuses with this new math but the most likely result will be raising s generation of math idiots.

iannis · Oct 24, 2019

5 isn't that bad, you have to divide both sides into a fraction and you'll immediately see that they're equal. 12/3 = 16/4

6 is a little tougher

I immediately go to 72 = 36n, but that requires division to solve. If you wanted to be REALLY SHITTY and troll the fuck out of your math teacher, you could multiply by 1/36... lol. And that might be exactly what they want you to do.

They seem to be testing if you're aware multiplication is the inverse of division and if you understand the usefulness of a fraction.

So you answer your question I may not be SMARTER than a fourth grader, but I think I'd get at least a B on that test.

Siddar · Oct 24, 2019

Lambourne said:
Yea this looks like a waste of time, it's oversimplified to the point that it's just going to hamper them when learning the proper way later on.

How is learning a "bar model" going to be of use for anything even slightly more complex?

They need to know it because for some reason they have stopped teaching kids the multiplication tables.

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Are you smarter than a 4th grader?

fred sanford

Gurgeh

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Moogalak

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fred sanford

Captain Suave

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Ravishing

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fred sanford

Captain Suave

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darkmiasma

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Sanrith Descartes

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