Arkk's Weight Lifting / Fitness Thread

What constitutes "all natural"? Anything but steroids? Just saying, you could approach the fitness of most of those dude in those LDN ads with just:

- protein
- creatine

I don't have good genetics to be huge - 6'1 and about 180' if I don't work out at all. Clearly ectomorph. When I was in the Navy I worked out every other day for about 1 to 1.5 hours. I was benching 315. Only supplements were protein and creatine. Also drank coffee or tea about 30 mins before gym.

That one T-Nation article I think covered it pretty well. It really depends on the person's own definition. You could argue that creatine isn't natty. Hell, you could say that about vitamins too.

The longer I've been doing this though, the less I care. It still takes a ridiculous amount of hard work to look good even on a serious cycle of steroids. It's definitely "easier" but it's not like you hop on, don't pay attention to your diet, and suddenly you're a fitness model.

Yeah wait what? Lol

Like I said, it depends on what you define as "natural." You're supplementing with vitamins, so one could argue that you're not completely natural. Is that retarded? Yes. I'm just making a point.

Is creatine still natty?
What about insulin?
HGH?
TRT?

I think most would argue that TRT is definitely not, but at the same time, isn't that person just bringing their natural levels up? Pretty similarly to how you would with vitamins.

Elurin_sl said:

Like I said, it depends on what you define as "natural." You're supplementing with vitamins, so one could argue that you're not completely natural. Is that retarded? Yes. I'm just making a point.

Is creatine still natty?
What about insulin?
HGH?
TRT?

I think most would argue that TRT is definitely not, but at the same time, isn't that person just bringing their natural levels up? Pretty similarly to how you would with vitamins.

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Would definitely go with is it legal, or not? Although, prohormones were legal up to the PH ban of 2014, and they are still quasi legal now.

Agree with Elurin. Itlan/Ossoi just making a big deal out of the point he was trying to make.

edit: To clarify -- if I asked my grandmother she'd think creatine was unnatural. It's one of the most well-studied substances in the world; we, as a community, have a very good idea of what it does and does not do. Everyone needs to make their own informed decision about any chemical they consume, be it creatine, testosterone, HGH, or clen. It seems pretty goddamn arbitrary where the line is drawn, and "supplement" usage is prevalent in way more areas of life than just lifting. I think it was in the better/faster/stronger documentary in which they interviewed concert orchestra players and found that many of them take drugs to relax them.

To Lyrical, I don't think legality implies morality in this scenario (or any others)... one ought consider the consequences both positive and negative then choose. I've been lifting seriously for a little more than a year and still enjoy knowing I have plenty of room to grow, both stronger and aesthetically. I have no idea how I'll feel when I hit Brahma's point and realize that I have to "cheat" to progress. I trust and believe I'll feel plenty satisfied with my natty gains and be content to maintain, but I also don't feel qualified to judge people that want to go further. I do think its kinda lame that people lie about it so much but given the legality and business issues, I do understand why deceit is a thing.

Ossoi- how can you be my Richard Simmons if you don't answer my questions?

I tried GVT today. I went light to be safe but I need to up weight and add exercises. I just did 1 chest/back exercise

40lb DB flat bench press 10x10
50lb lat pull down. 10x10

I felt like I got a decent work out in. I focused on the negative motion as well. I just know I need to add weight.

Convo,

Preface: almost anything you do in the gym consistently, extrapolated over years, will produce nice results... that being said.

That doesn't look very productive to me. GVT is a training technique that originated with heavy fucking juice to prepare for olympic lifts. People have bastardized the immense volume and produce debatable results, but the people benefiting are people pushing intermediate-advanced weight in the first place. They're looking to specialize for a specific period. Every report I've seen comments on how grueling the routine is. Most report some gains; most report that they won't do that again. Intuitively, it makes sense... a juicing lifter can utilize the volume in a way that natty lifters can not.

I do not think applying the same concepts to a 50lb lat pulldown make any sense whatseover. I'm no scientist. Do what you please. But 10x10x50lbs may as well be cardio. Its an inappropriate application of volume to your own status of a lifter.

If there are some aspects about your physique that make you think this is beneficial that I'm unlikely to know about, then chime in. Like, if you happened to be a 110lb female.

As I said, I'm no scientist -- I just don't see how doing 100 reps of an exercise is even remotely close to optimal and I feel that most lifters want to at least consider the optimal.

So the right diet for GVT is daily injections? Otherwise you didn't read a single word Eidal posted. Not being mean, just that his post clearly shits all over GVT and it has nothing to do with the diet portion of the concept. GVT is cardio while holding weights. Which is fine if cardio is the goal, but personally I think there are way better ways to spend time in the gym.

Eidal- I was just genuinely curious how it would feel. I really didn't know what kind of weight to start with since it was a lot of reps. I did something like this before but it was supersets and 15-20x4 for 4 exercises(Which would wreck anyone.) I considered just doing that routine again but it is so time consuming. I will say, I am actually a little sore which surprised me. I think it's mostly in part from focusing on the negative motion. I'd probably have to go up to about 60lb DBs for chest if I tried this again. I needs a break from my routine so it was nice to just do something different.

Ossoi- I don't know your routine, part of a good workout is fitting into a person's life. I don't have time for 2 hour sessions, if that's what you're getting at? Right now, I do Body for life. It's 6 days a week. Alternate days of weights and Cardio. Weight days are 45 mins and Cardio is 20 mins HIIT. I just don't follow the diet as I cut grains and dairy from my diet. I eat mostly sweet potatoes, eggs, meats, veggies and some fruit.

Ossoi_sl said:

I already told you that the first 4 weeks would be 4 x 20minute sessions of HIIT a week. This is to burn fat and prepare your physical fitness for the next phase which combines HIIT with GVT and proper nutrition to burn fat and gain muscle.

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I can handle that. It's probably best I don't fully jump into the diet/weights until may anyway. Not that my diet is bad. It's probably 80% clean, I just don't count calories yet. I'm hitting Vegas that first week but I am trying to get in solid shape before I go.

The HIIT I want to do now that it's nice out is at a track by me. I want to sprint the straightaway and walk the bends for 20 mins. How does that sound for a session?

Only thing I'd like to add is a pushup/plank routine during cardio phase. It's 3 sets of 10 pushups right into a plank for 30 secs or longer. No breaks.

Ossoi is going to tell you to eat 1.5lbs of chicken breast daily. And coconut oil.

Looking for some advice for bench.

Ive made some good gains this past year doing Strong Lifts 5x5. Ive gotten my last bench set to 315x5, but now Im getting some strange right shoulder pain. All along my back right shoulder through what feels like the crease between my deltoid and tricep. It wakes me up at night lately. Obviously its fucked and I need to lay off the heavy bench press. My hope was to get to a consistant 400+ bench by the end of the summer, but if I cant go heavy, I dont think thats going to happen. I know bench isnt that important, but its my hobby. /shrug I still squat and deadlift regularly and have not problem going heavy in either.

Ive switched from going 5 reps to just dropping down to 225 and getting 3 set of 15. I can do this without lingering pain that night or the next day. Any thoughts on if this will maintain strength and gains while I let my asshole shoulder heal? A friend suggested I stay at low reps/heavy weight but with close grip, but that seems to be an entirely different exercise to me.

Additionally, I'm getting older now (42) and I'm getting less confident in my ability to keep loading on heavy weights without some inevitable old man injury happening. Any good programs that are a transition away, but still keeping good fundementals, core exercises, without doing dumb trendy movements.

Also, diet.... How do you maintain strength and drop weight as a old guy? Protein adds muscle, but it just gets me bulkier and lm looking to trim down. (Im 6'4 280) I dont want to be 50 years and this heavy, but I still want to life and want to avoid sustained cardio horseshit like running. (HIIT?)

Holy shit man, stop benchingcompletelyand go see a doctor. Everything I've read about shoulder injuries/surgeries scare me... and at 42, you aren't going to spring back like a 20 year old lifter who blows out his shoulder.

Re: diet; eat 100-200g protein and under 2700 calories (your TDEE) daily. Track your weight, record your progress, lower calories further if not losing weight consistently over a week period. You aren't going to maintain all your strength, that's just what existence at a deficit is -- its logical, your body is being forced into canabalizing itself for energy... its not going to perform at its best. You'll especially lose #s on your lifts dropping from 280lbs (34.1 BMI!)... but the health AND aesthetic benefit should compensate for that. I mean, once again, I'm no doctor... but I'm going to guess you're 25+ percent bf and that's not optimal.

They'll probably have you do a MRI, Lleauaric. Hopefully everything will be OK. Definitely don't wait.