Ashes of Creation
- Thread starter Tearofsoul
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
- 1,302
- -627
Uriel
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,838
- 2,289
He said in one of the interviews that yeah they will have enchant fail chance at higher enchant levels. You'll be able to safely enchant to a certain point, then maybe have a chance to fail or lose progress for the next so many levels, then destruction chance at high levels. This is a good thing for player economy, risk vs. reward and a chase for more power when you've reached a point of limited upgrades.
Vepil
Gamja
- 5,852
- 24,539
Item enchant destruction def gives crafting a purpose. In Archeage I would craft up 10 of the items and start upgrading till I got something I could sell or what level I wanted to keep and level up higher result was always farming buying and crafting. The chances were just a bit ridiculous at higher levels.
Min level for PVP was divine and it was 10% chance at one time to get. Next level up dropped to 7.5% chance to go up, 5% and finally 2.5% for the Mythic level. Charms doubled those values but sure didn't feel like it. After losing their audience base they changed the divine rate up to nearly 45% without a charm way too late and now as said you just grind exp items and gold to upgrade to the top tiers. That grind gets stale and kinda takes away the "big dick" feel of getting the luck of draw on higher tiers.
Min level for PVP was divine and it was 10% chance at one time to get. Next level up dropped to 7.5% chance to go up, 5% and finally 2.5% for the Mythic level. Charms doubled those values but sure didn't feel like it. After losing their audience base they changed the divine rate up to nearly 45% without a charm way too late and now as said you just grind exp items and gold to upgrade to the top tiers. That grind gets stale and kinda takes away the "big dick" feel of getting the luck of draw on higher tiers.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
It's just a bad mechanic overall, especially with the p2w charms and scrolls. It just turns good equipment into a lottery vs. something you can realistically work towards. The economy was also fucked in Archeage. You had the super expensive good stuff, then shittier stuff below that with massive price drops. You'd end up selling at a loss considering materials costs and labor costs for anything that was below epic quality. Once the server matures, this always happens and items blowing up on failed rolls does nothing to stop that beyond creating a very niche market at the high end.
- 1
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 7,318
- 2,392
The way original AA did it sucked. I hated it. 50% of that hate because they just did p2w in the market for it.
I like the way the current AA does it. The item can "break", but you can still use it etc. You just cant upgrade it until you remove the "Broken" status, which was a item that you could buy with honor. The honor needed was a middle amount iirc, not a tlittle but not a ton, so it easily doable by people just playing the game.
I like the way the current AA does it. The item can "break", but you can still use it etc. You just cant upgrade it until you remove the "Broken" status, which was a item that you could buy with honor. The honor needed was a middle amount iirc, not a tlittle but not a ton, so it easily doable by people just playing the game.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
That sounds a lot better. Having your legendary sword explode because you rolled a 40 instead of a 41 or higher always felt like bullshit. When I was getting ready to quit Archeage, I decided to try my luck on my sword. Added a charm and good scroll, hit upgrade, thing blew up. That removed any lingering doubt about quitting the game at that point lol
Vepil
Gamja
- 5,852
- 24,539
Oh I agree, the reward did not justify the work where some go Legendary 4x on weapons and I only got Epic once in about 100 upgrade attempts. The SWG degrading of equipment wasn't too bad, it could be repaired but a roll deteremined how well and you lost some durability. Things eventually wore out and were removed requiring constant farming and crafting. It wasn't perfect but very little in these games are.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
These games seldom get crafting right because they try to force a specific type of economy through crafting or item mechanics. They try to make crafting interdependence (ie, Woodworker can't make stuff w/o a leather work or blacksmith providing components), then try to limit how many crafters you have
This game seems to be using this with the revelation you can only have 1 master crafter and maybe a bunch of less skilled crafting. I wouldn't be surprised if this basically shakes out as: All the noob shit will use the stuff you can supply yourself if you level the stuff sub-master, but anything worth a shit will require master crafting+. This gives coordinated guilds a leg up, since they usually will force specialization so they can do everything in house. This side steps the economy, beyond them creating an early monopoly and throwing the occasional bone onto the market to generate funds (usually at an inflated rate). Unfortunately, this also gives RMT operations a massive incentive to exploit and inflates the value of gold farming, which ends up doing more damage to the market...you either get hyperinflation, or an economy where most of your playerbase never really gets to participate.
He's basically trying to replicate AA or L2, but the economy in those games got all sorts of fucked because of a combo of RMT and difficult barrier of entry to actually make gold (the later driving the RMT....when your options are run high risk packs for days and still not have enough gold to buy something, or you spend $20 on a shady RMT website, you're going to find more and more people being driven to the RMT means of making up for ingame mechanics that limit legitimate ways of making money).
This game seems to be using this with the revelation you can only have 1 master crafter and maybe a bunch of less skilled crafting. I wouldn't be surprised if this basically shakes out as: All the noob shit will use the stuff you can supply yourself if you level the stuff sub-master, but anything worth a shit will require master crafting+. This gives coordinated guilds a leg up, since they usually will force specialization so they can do everything in house. This side steps the economy, beyond them creating an early monopoly and throwing the occasional bone onto the market to generate funds (usually at an inflated rate). Unfortunately, this also gives RMT operations a massive incentive to exploit and inflates the value of gold farming, which ends up doing more damage to the market...you either get hyperinflation, or an economy where most of your playerbase never really gets to participate.
He's basically trying to replicate AA or L2, but the economy in those games got all sorts of fucked because of a combo of RMT and difficult barrier of entry to actually make gold (the later driving the RMT....when your options are run high risk packs for days and still not have enough gold to buy something, or you spend $20 on a shady RMT website, you're going to find more and more people being driven to the RMT means of making up for ingame mechanics that limit legitimate ways of making money).
- 1
- 26,484
- 40,587
If you make loot good, it will be RMTed, no matter if its drops or from crafting shit. RMTers will RMT. The only solution to RMT is not to have loot be of any consequence, like for example, Shadowbane had. But then it makes the PvE game boring and stale as fuck. Or like wow does it, with a whole bunch of BOE bullshit, but then WOW had its own RMT problem with gold and mount skills ups, didnt it. Or simply buy the gold to buy all the BOE bullshit your heart desires. Which in turn made a whole bunch of bots and such farming gold 24/7. At least in the early years, not sure about now.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,198
- 110,710
I got the impression that you select one of the crafting trees (gathering/processing/crafting) and within those trees, you select one profession to be a grandmaster of. Like in the gathering professions you can be a grandmaster fisherman but you can have some degree of proficiency (master?) in all of the others in that tree.
This will ease the pressure of a Grandmaster Only economy if they do it right. As all but the absolute highest level stuff could be done by whoever. But the highest level of crafting items would likely require multiple grandmasters.
On paper it sounds cool but the poopsockers would absolutely create a Grandmaster Monopoly with a swiftness. The only way it can work is if Average Timmy can at least get by with what they have. Without being forced to pay grandmasters tons of resources to survive.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
Right, you're always going to have RMT. But creating a lopsided economy encourages the playerbase to use RMT to get a leg up, which encourages the high prices which drove RMT to begin with, which repeats the cycle.
Given what I remember about Sorcerer in AA, his primary vision is probably "I want the most powerful guilds on the server to dictate the economy". Which is great and all, but most of the server isn't in these guilds and unlike real life, it's pretty easy to buy your way to riches using things outside the game. Dev studios with more resources struggle to fight RMT, so I am dubious on their ability to combat it.
Given what I remember about Sorcerer in AA, his primary vision is probably "I want the most powerful guilds on the server to dictate the economy". Which is great and all, but most of the server isn't in these guilds and unlike real life, it's pretty easy to buy your way to riches using things outside the game. Dev studios with more resources struggle to fight RMT, so I am dubious on their ability to combat it.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
Right. The mega guilds will poopsock to GM by feeding resources to individuals to power level them asap so they can corner the market and become the "sole" sources of the things in question. This gives them an early game advantage, but it also completely fucks up the economy and sets the precedent going forward.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,198
- 110,710
That will boil down to whether Ashes of Creation follows the design philosophy of, "the end game is the only game" or not. I don't know if he's ever spoken about that specifically.
The Journey is the Game should be the inherent grounding rule for MMO. As it is for all RPG.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,211
- 13,757
It seems like PVP is the primary focus for end game beyond some boss fights/mini-raids, which boils down to "how fast can I max myself out so I outgear and outlevel everyone else on the battlefield".
Gear made for massive differences in AA. I remember guys in our guild who had top quality stuff and were basically like the Sauron flashback from LOTR where he's just destroying a dozen guys in one attack.
Gear made for massive differences in AA. I remember guys in our guild who had top quality stuff and were basically like the Sauron flashback from LOTR where he's just destroying a dozen guys in one attack.
