Autonomous Systems

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Would you ever own an autonomous vehicle?

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A

a_skeleton_03

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mkopec said:
So what about the hacking angle?

Or someone systematically trying to throw wrenches into the digital system?

What about power failures? Ho will those be negated? The more complex a system gets, the more problems it encounters.

Whose to blame when my antonymous vehicle kills someone due to one of the above?
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Who's to blame when an engine dies during travel because of a faulty ECU?

Bad airbags like right now?

Bad tires like Firestone in the 90's?

If you think autonomous driving is that much of an increase in complexity you aren't paying attention to what modern cars can do right now.

Fear mongering about hacking (not saying you are) slows us all down when like Tuco brings up there are infinitely more ways to hurt someone low tech.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Hacking a car can be safely done from your living room. And depending how systems are designed, especially fleet type trucking or ups, hacking could involve a whole fleet of trucks, maybe to be used in some grand terror attack, for example.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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mkopec said:
Hacking a car can be safely done from your living room. And depending how systems are designed, especially fleet type trucking or ups, hacking could involve a whole fleet of trucks, maybe to be used in some grand terror attack, for example.
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Stop ruining the Fast & Furious 15 plot bro
 
Cad

Cad

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It's a pretty different scenario between when an autonomous vehicle (or AP) fails to take evasive action but the accident was still the other person's fault (e.g. the Tesla accident where the truck pulled out in front of him). Depending on your state you get into comparative negligence and a lot of shit about percentages of fault that don't really make sense or are arbitrary depending on the fact finder.

Hacking and such gets into intervening criminal action which almost always results in no liability for the manufacturer. Do you sue dell if your computer gets hacked? Lets not be idiots here.
 
Abefroman

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I would think there would have to be many safeguards put into place that would disable any autonomous system for consumer use if certain criteria aren't met. People don't take care of their shit anymore. Routine maintenance is usually put off to save a buck or just straight up ignored. I would think testing of all the electronics, cameras and other things used in the car would have to be on some sort of schedule and if ignored the system would be disabled. At least I hope the fuck so.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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mkopec said:
Hacking a car can be safely done from your living room. And depending how systems are designed, especially fleet type trucking or ups, hacking could involve a whole fleet of trucks, maybe to be used in some grand terror attack, for example.
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You can already do that now though.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Abefroman said:
I would think there would have to be many safeguards put into place that would disable any autonomous system for consumer use if certain criteria aren't met. People don't take care of their shit anymore. Routine maintenance is usually put off to save a buck or just straight up ignored. I would think testing of all the electronics, cameras and other things used in the car would have to be on some sort of schedule and if ignored the system would be disabled. At least I hope the fuck so.
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Another great point.
 
Kiroy

Kiroy

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Xequecal said:
1. Yes, and that liability is spread out over the entire population, not all borne by the auto manufacturer.
2. There's rarely an incentive to pay an expensive lawyer in order to sue an individual driver. They don't have enough money. Tesla does.
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I don't know if Xeq came in here to get buttfucked, but I just needed to say that this is probably the single dumbest non-election related post I've seen this year. Do we know for sure he actually lives in america and understands how things in the west work? I'm getting the feeling he's here for cultural learning of American for make benefit to Glorious Nation of Kazahstan.
 
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Sentagur

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So far allot of talk about active detection in the autonomous cars. How feasible would it be to retrofit cars on the road with some short range transponders that would help the cars detect each other or maybe even talk to each other to pass along information about traffic conditions?
Lets say there are no privacy concerns and all meatbags maintain their cars to be in perfect running order. Would a system like that be possible as an assist to active detection at least?


Edit: Hell, why just work on modernizing car? Add high-tech autonomous express lanes to the highways and if you want to participate you need to have the beacon active and your car software uptodate.
Make the cars talk to the highway too.
 
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Cad

Cad

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Kiroy said:
I don't know if Xeq came in here to get buttfucked, but I just needed to say that this is probably the single dumbest non-election related post I've seen this year. Do we know for sure he actually lives in america and understands how things in the west work? I'm getting the feeling he's here for cultural learning of American for make benefit to Glorious Nation of Kazahstan.
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I didn't even see that post. Does he realize that like 75% of the cases before normal county/district courts in state court are auto accident cases where it is one driver suing another?

lol

"rarely"
 
Palum

Palum

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Not to defend Xeqtard but I think you should look at the aircraft industry more than the current car industry regarding liability.

Maybe Cad can find it with his super duper tools - but I recall some early 90s case where Lycoming was shafted with a huge wrongful death suit from a 40+ year old engine be cause of 'design issues' or somesuch (poor maintenance really) and it was only recently that something came on the books that protected manufacturers after 5 (maybe 10?) years from liability of design/defects.
 
BrutulTM

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I think the best way to deal with lane splitting motorcycles is to just kill them immediately since it's going to happen sooner or later anyway.
 
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Tuco

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Sentagur said:
So far allot of talk about active detection in the autonomous cars. How feasible would it be to retrofit cars on the road with some short range transponders that would help the cars detect each other or maybe even talk to each other to pass along information about traffic conditions?
Lets say there are no privacy concerns and all meatbags maintain their cars to be in perfect running order. Would a system like that be possible as an assist to active detection at least?


Edit: Hell, why just work on modernizing car? Add high-tech autonomous express lanes to the highways and if you want to participate you need to have the beacon active and your car software uptodate.
Make the cars talk to the highway too.
Click to expand...
Very feasible and vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure comms are being actively worked on:
Vehicle-to-vehicle - Wikipedia
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/ru...-of-V2V-Technology-for-Application-812014.pdf
 
Sentagur

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Tuco said:
Very feasible and vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure comms are being actively worked on:
Vehicle-to-vehicle - Wikipedia
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/ru...-of-V2V-Technology-for-Application-812014.pdf
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Depending on the bandwidth of V2V or V2x the autonomous vehicle sensor range could get expanded drastically which would help with calculations needed to navigate safely. The biggest hurdle seems to be infrastructure upgrade costs. Imagine how much it would cost to embed RIFD strips (or whatever tech they decide on)every few car lengths across the highway grid alone , not even talking small side roads or urban centers.
 
Tuco

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As cool as V2x is, it's not a generalized solution and future-looking autonomy is going to have to work on that dirt road in the back of your hunting ground, or anywhere really.

Besides that, most vehicles won't know where they are with a huge degree of accuracy and you'll absolutely want some perception sensors telling you where everything is relative to yourself.

I mean, if you're a navigation system and you have two sources of input, one from v2v saying, "Hi I'm a car somewhere between 10 and 20 meters from you, at somewhere between 75 and 80 degrees." and one from perception saying, "There's an object of this shape with center of mass at exactly 13.54 meters from you at exactly 78.54 degrees", you're going to want that perception input.
 
chaos

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Tuco, mind if I ask why you seen quite measured in your predictions for autonomous driving? At a conference I talked to a guy from Tesla and another guy from Uber and they were talking it up like this shit was imminent. both were talking about autonomous trucking fleets within 5 years and standard in every consumer car in 10.
 
Tuco

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chaos said:
Tuco, mind if I ask why you seen quite measured in your predictions for autonomous driving? At a conference I talked to a guy from Tesla and another guy from Uber and they were talking it up like this shit was imminent. both were talking about autonomous trucking fleets within 5 years and standard in every consumer car in 10.
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What Tesla has in market now, supercruise, is imminent. It works well on the highway in good conditions. Delphi, Bosch et all have a system that's going into new cars and I think it'll be a standard feature in luxury cars in 5-10 years.

But general purpose autonomy like the google car is further than 10 years away because:
1. There's still a lot of cases where even the google car fails.
2. The sensor and processing payload for it is fairly expensive.

I can go into more detail (but it'd probably be repeating what I've already said in this thread), but the bottom line is there are a tremendous number of technical challenges to getting full autonomy, and once they are achieved there is a lot of commoditization and testing that needs to happen before it's a standard feature in consumer vehicles.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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how soon til autonomous trucks?
that shit will put out tens of thousands of jobs everywhere.

holy fuck.
 
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