Babylon 5

Intrinsic · Nov 9, 2019

ShakyJake said:
Sorry, I should have elaborated.

It's not the religiosity that annoyed me, it's the fact that fucking robots who know who their creator is, and know that their genesis doesn't involve any kind of supernatural explanation. It would be like Data in Star Trek becoming all religious believing in a soul and an afterlife. It's a machine bound by rules of logic and science. It's just something that annoys me personally. I get it that others aren't going to necessarily be irked by that as much as I.

Huh? Isn’t that the entire point? Like, literal machines, coming to question their existential nature in the face of knowing their creator? It is an alt metaphor for humans being “biological” machines and knowing what we evolved from, but developing religion (or sticking with it even in presence of scientific advancement). It seems clear to me? But the religious stuff doesn’t really prickle me regardless.

Hoss · Nov 10, 2019

ShakyJake said:
Sorry, I should have elaborated.

It's not the religiosity that annoyed me, it's the fact that fucking robots who know who their creator is, and know that their genesis doesn't involve any kind of supernatural explanation. It would be like Data in Star Trek becoming all religious believing in a soul and an afterlife. It's a machine bound by rules of logic and science. It's just something that annoys me personally. I get it that others aren't going to necessarily be irked by that as much as I.

Caprica answered that idiosyncracy. Long story short, cylons were programmed by religious zealots who believed in 1 God. So the cylons were never sentient, they were an advanced ai but it was still GIGO.

I think cylons had killed their creators. But I could be thinking of the original series because that was definitely part of their original backstory.

khorum · Nov 10, 2019

Well even if you were to reduce both shows to religious parable (which you shouldn't), BSG till comes out way ahead as the better show. From the very first scene of the series, from the very first line delivered by the very first cylon showed in BSG, it states the whole theme and motivation of the central conflict of the show:

"Are you alive? Prove it"

BSG has aged very gracefully and every episode remains watchable (even the excruciating starbuck ones). Not so with Bab5.

moonarchia · Nov 10, 2019

ShakyJake said:
Sorry, I should have elaborated.

It's not the religiosity that annoyed me, it's the fact that fucking robots who know who their creator is, and know that their genesis doesn't involve any kind of supernatural explanation. It would be like Data in Star Trek becoming all religious believing in a soul and an afterlife. It's a machine bound by rules of logic and science. It's just something that annoys me personally. I get it that others aren't going to necessarily be irked by that as much as I.

What now? The Vorlons were never robots. They are just an extremely long lived race that used those suits to keep their actual selves hidden so that people wouldn't do the pre-programmed worship thing. Both them and the Shadows fucked with the DNA of pretty much every sentient race in B5.

Araysar · Nov 10, 2019

moonarchia said:
What now? The Vorlons were never robots. They are just an extremely long lived race that used those suits to keep their actual selves hidden so that people wouldn't do the pre-programmed worship thing. Both them and the Shadows fucked with the DNA of pretty much every sentient race in B5.

Did people forget Kosh showing everyone his true form in that episode about the monorail bomb?

I havent watched this show since I was a teenager in the 1990s and the CGI was even cheesy back then (when compared to CGI in DS9) so Im not sure if I coud stomach all of that on the basis of the storyline alone

Regime · Nov 10, 2019

Loved Bab5 but it’s no DS9.

Fight me nerds

lgarthy · Nov 10, 2019

OMG-- I am through season 2 of B5 for the rewatch. Awesome. I love how the second string characters shine this season.

But Amazon Prime made a suggestion-- "Space:1999." That show used to play on the local network at odd hours in the mid-1970's. So I watched the first episode and I was blown away by how high-end that show is. Very Kubrick-inspired, clearly. Amazingly crisp effects. Looks HD on my TV too. I was expecting to dejavu of mega-cheese and what I get from episode 1 is pretty solid sci-fi (forgiving the retro-Pan-Am style stewardess on the shuttle to the moon... That water glass might not have worked out as depicted!

)

Damn this brings back memories. I bailed on "Altered Carbon." All it's high-end 4K glitz and multi-million dollar budget per episode and that show is stupid. Incredibly stupid. Robbing from all kinds of sources (but mostly "Blade Runner") with no consistency for plot or timeline or regard for making any sense at all. So effing brainless. Like it was written by plagerizing 5th graders with hard-ons.

But, back to the point. Space:1999. Wow-- I am putting that on my watch list too.

Now I am going to look to see if it's predecessor, "UFO" is also on a streaming service. I wonder if that crazy, psychedelic cold-war paranoia show will hold up (and it may explain my early interest in Goth women...).

cheers.

a_skeleton_05 · Nov 10, 2019

Find and watch Space: Above and Beyond too if you like B5 or BSG. It nailed the BSG tone years earlier. I'm convinced Moore was heavily influenced by it.

Remember BSG's Scar episode with the elite Cylon pilot? S:AaB did it almost a decade earlier

ShakyJake · Nov 10, 2019

Intrinsic said:
Huh? Isn’t that the entire point? Like, literal machines, coming to question their existential nature in the face of knowing their creator? It is an alt metaphor for humans being “biological” machines and knowing what we evolved from, but developing religion (or sticking with it even in presence of scientific advancement). It seems clear to me? But the religious stuff doesn’t really prickle me regardless.

I suppose. I'm not good at identifying literary devices, so to my limited intellect I felt it was fucking dumb.

moonarchia said:
What now? The Vorlons were never robots. They are just an extremely long lived race that used those suits to keep their actual selves hidden so that people wouldn't do the pre-programmed worship thing. Both them and the Shadows fucked with the DNA of pretty much every sentient race in B5.

I was talking about Battle Star Galactica.

Intrinsic · Nov 10, 2019

ShakyJake said:
I suppose. I'm not good at identifying literary devices, so to my limited intellect I felt it was fucking dumb.

I was talking about Battle Star Galactica.

To be fair I was drunk at a bar and don’t remember posting that at all so, ymmv.

Mudcrush Durtfeet · Nov 10, 2019

Araysar said:
Did people forget Kosh showing everyone his true form in that episode about the monorail bomb?

View attachment 230562

I havent watched this show since I was a teenager in the 1990s and the CGI was even cheesy back then (when compared to CGI in DS9) so Im not sure if I coud stomach all of that on the basis of the storyline alone

Nope. That was Kosh lying to everyone 'cuz fuckin' Vorlon. You see what Kosh REALLY looks like in the Nude Vorlon Wrestling episode when he and Kosh Vader go at it.

Fadaar · Nov 10, 2019

Dom said:
Find and watch Space: Above and Beyond too if you like B5 or BSG. It nailed the BSG tone years earlier. I'm convinced Moore was heavily influenced by it.

Remember BSG's Scar episode with the elite Cylon pilot? S:AaB did it almost a decade earlier

Saw a DVD collection of S:AAB for sale years ago and bought it. +1 to the long list of sci-fi shows Fox killed off way too early.

Lanx · Nov 10, 2019

Fadaar said:
Saw a DVD collection of S:AAB for sale years ago and bought it. +1 to the long list of sci-fi shows Fox killed off way too early.

Shuffle up the Wild Cards and deal 'em

Sentagur · Nov 10, 2019

Dom said:
Find and watch Space: Above and Beyond too if you like B5 or BSG. It nailed the BSG tone years earlier. I'm convinced Moore was heavily influenced by it.

Remember BSG's Scar episode with the elite Cylon pilot? S:AaB did it almost a decade earlier

Hey Ho, Lets Go !

Sentagur · Nov 10, 2019

Araysar said:
Did people forget Kosh showing everyone his true form in that episode about the monorail bomb?

View attachment 230562

I havent watched this show since I was a teenager in the 1990s and the CGI was even cheesy back then (when compared to CGI in DS9) so Im not sure if I coud stomach all of that on the basis of the storyline alone

Thats is the result of their genetic manipulations, every species saw something different but similar . They did it to make it easier to manipulate the younger races. In regards to the CGI, it improves a bit after season 1 and the story justifies "suffering" through it.
The Londo/G'kar subplot is worth it alone.

ShakyJake · Nov 10, 2019

Sentagur said:
In regards to the CGI, it improves a bit after season 1 and the story justifies "suffering" through it.

I thought season 3 and on-wards is pretty good. Only season 1 looked rough. They were using what? Amiga Video Toasters at the time.

Intrinsic · Nov 10, 2019

Fine, fuck you, you win, yadda yadda....

Starting another watch through now.

p.s. watching In the Beginning now and the CG isn’t off putting at all. Honestly don’t remember being this good.

Siliconemelons · Nov 10, 2019

Sentagur said:
The Londo/G'kar subplot is worth it alone.

Subplot.... SUBplot?

They are the plot! They are telling the story

Sentagur · Nov 10, 2019

Intrinsic said:
Fine, fuck you, you win, yadda yadda....

Starting another watch through now.

p.s. watching In the Beginning now and the CG isn’t off putting at all. Honestly don’t remember being this good.

I am just finishing season 1 last episode while i type this. I honestly thing B5 is required viewing for anyone who enjoys Sci Fi.
There are a few filler episodes but i dont mind watching them because most of them advance the global plot in some fashion.
I think i will try to find Space : Above and beyond after i finish this one. Hopefully someone managed to upload a rip to the usual stream sites because last time i search for it it was almost impossible to find the complete set.

Sentagur · Nov 10, 2019

Xadion said:
Subplot.... SUBplot?

They are the plot! They are telling the story

Oh i get that, but their personal rivalry and the good guy/bad guy role reversals are kind of a subplot.

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