Baldur's Gate 3 by Larian Games

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Nola

Nola

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Burns said:
They do seem to be releasing to EA slower than expected, but we are also coming off the big holiday slowdown. Also, who knows where the buggy internal build is at. All the other classes could be +50% done, but too many problems to push to EA.

Druid was probably the hardest class to implement with all the wild shape forms, their abilities, and unique spells. The other classes only have a few unique mechanics to get around.
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Yeah I can't wait for next week to try out the druid if they release the patch. The druid and paladin are my most anticipated classes in BG3. Plus I've been playing the hell out if Pathfinder: WoTR beta and it's supposed to be out this year. One thing I noticed is I'm really hating coming back to BG3 to a 4 man party when having a 6 man party in PF:WoTR.
 
Void

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I went to their site to try to read about Patch 4, in the hopes that maybe some miracle caused them to include Summoner finally (and the Synthesist subclass specifically). No dice, of course. Pretty sure having a shitload of summons out would probably break their game/fight difficulty, but a guy can dream!

Anyway, I remember someone wanting to play through without Mythic abilities, and the debate over whether they would implement that or not, as it appears that currently the early access build makes you take them? Regardless, I can't remember if it was ever decisively put to rest, so when I saw this, I figured I'd pass it along in case anyone was still wondering. Personally I think Mythic powers are an amazing addition, but everyone plays differently.

Here's what it says when you click on Legend under Mythic Paths:
One need not be a mythic creature, an outsider, or one of the goddesses's chosen to become a hero. Those who decline all mythic powers and purify their souls from any outside influence are capable of great deeds. This path may be a hard one, full of temptation, but if you tread it rightly, you'll earn the title: Mythic Legend.
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Shmoopy

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Yeah so .... I have hundreds of hours in BG 1, BG2, DOS1, DOS2. I bought into the early access and played up to max level / end of early access.

So far this game is just not that compelling. What exactly is the issue? You'd figure this would be a slam dunk. Good RPG company + classic IP. But it just isn't that great. What is the deal? Any thoughts?
 
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reavor

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Shmoopy said:
Yeah so .... I have hundreds of hours in BG 1, BG2, DOS1, DOS2. I bought into the early access and played up to max level / end of early access.

So far this game is just not that compelling. What exactly is the issue? You'd figure this would be a slam dunk. Good RPG company + classic IP. But it just isn't that great. What is the deal? Any thoughts?
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Good RPG company takes good IP and then tries to make it into something its not, into one of their own games. The game becomes some weird hybrid losing the magic of the original IP and the mold it is forced into. Huge BG fan, DoS was alright, not sure if i will buy this or not.
 
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Qhue

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The chief issue with the start of the game is that it blows its load WAAAAY too early. In the opening cinematic you have Dragons, Mindflayers, multiple teleports and a trip to Avernus. Then within the first chapter your party (including a Githyanki and a vampire) are already travelling to the Underdark, encountering minotaurs, myconids and duergar. You do all of this while being no more than 4th level. Its a completely different scope and challenges suspension of disbelief. I mean this elf is a many centuries old vampire and only now, today, does he manage to get past 1st level rogue? Gale is a very knowledgeable wizard for a dude who starts out not even being able to cast bloody magic missile.

I get that they want to eschew the usual trappings of the intro adventure, but I feel like by jumping into the thick of it right away they've somehow cheapened the thrill.
 
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D

Droigan

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Qhue said:
The chief issue with the start of the game is that it blows its load WAAAAY too early. In the opening cinematic you have Dragons, Mindflayers, multiple teleports and a trip to Avernus. Then within the first chapter your party (including a Githyanki and a vampire) are already travelling to the Underdark, encountering minotaurs, myconids and duergar. You do all of this while being no more than 4th level. Its a completely different scope and challenges suspension of disbelief. I mean this elf is a many centuries old vampire and only now, today, does he manage to get past 1st level rogue? Gale is a very knowledgeable wizard for a dude who starts out not even being able to cast bloody magic missile.

I get that they want to eschew the usual trappings of the intro adventure, but I feel like by jumping into the thick of it right away they've somehow cheapened the thrill.
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Kind of my feeling as well.

I think it'd be more interesting to do it similarly to Dragon Age Origins and how the different starting areas were done there. What they could do is one starting area, level 1-4/5, separate "prologue" for every "main" character, and it ends with what is the intro now. Captured. The prologue is the story up to that point.

For starting a custom NPC, it could be a 7th. Kind of like picking a commoner dwarf compared to a noble in Origins.
 
Urlithani

Urlithani

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Qhue said:
The chief issue with the start of the game is that it blows its load WAAAAY too early. In the opening cinematic you have Dragons, Mindflayers, multiple teleports and a trip to Avernus. Then within the first chapter your party (including a Githyanki and a vampire) are already travelling to the Underdark, encountering minotaurs, myconids and duergar. You do all of this while being no more than 4th level. Its a completely different scope and challenges suspension of disbelief. I mean this elf is a many centuries old vampire and only now, today, does he manage to get past 1st level rogue? Gale is a very knowledgeable wizard for a dude who starts out not even being able to cast bloody magic missile.

I get that they want to eschew the usual trappings of the intro adventure, but I feel like by jumping into the thick of it right away they've somehow cheapened the thrill.
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Ugh. One of the best things about BG was being new adventuring blood, wandering around seeing what trouble awaits you in the world.

As someone who grew up playing 2nd Edition and Faerun, it also cheapens the setting by making dangerous locales like Avernus and the Underdark easy.

"Many adventurers descend into the Underdark and are never heard from again!"
"Actually it's my first adventure and we just fought our way out of Menzoberranzon. I can cast 2nd level spells now! I'm so powerful!"

I dont know if this was Larian, or if WoTC screwed up the realms in 4th or 5th edition, but I'm old and grumpy and dont like that change now. Let me wander around and get ambushed by random encounters, stumble upon a dungeon, circus, or bounty hunters, etc.

Lastly give me a normal, loyal companion:
 
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But that's Larian studios, their storylines are always super epic world-core essence changing. In DoS 1 you get to the end of time and the portal nexus of the universe at like lvl 5 as well. DoS 2 takes you to the plane of the dead at like lvl 7, and meeting the worlds most powerful beings almost at the start. BG 1 and 2 (maybe discounting ToB) was a story about mainly small regional issues in a tiny relatively inconspicuous region of the world.
 
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Kirun

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Yeah, story was always my largest fear with this game. Larian has CRPG gameplay down like a motherfucker - in fact, they might even be the best in the business. Problem is, their storytelling is complete ass. I literally couldn't finish DoS 1 because of how absurd it got once you go to the ice/snow area. DoS 2 was better, but still had a ton of issues with absurdity.

I'm sure I'll play this once it is finally finished, but I'm looking forward to Wrath of the Righteous far more than this.
 
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Caliane

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Qhue said:
The chief issue with the start of the game is that it blows its load WAAAAY too early. In the opening cinematic you have Dragons, Mindflayers, multiple teleports and a trip to Avernus. Then within the first chapter your party (including a Githyanki and a vampire) are already travelling to the Underdark, encountering minotaurs, myconids and duergar. You do all of this while being no more than 4th level. Its a completely different scope and challenges suspension of disbelief. I mean this elf is a many centuries old vampire and only now, today, does he manage to get past 1st level rogue? Gale is a very knowledgeable wizard for a dude who starts out not even being able to cast bloody magic missile.

I get that they want to eschew the usual trappings of the intro adventure, but I feel like by jumping into the thick of it right away they've somehow cheapened the thrill.
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Pathfinder:kingmaker has this same problem.

Lets invite a bunch of level 1 nobodies to the keep, and challenge them with killing the Staglord, so we can award them Nobility, and a Baronship over the entire land.
yo what? lets send a level 1 sorcerer to spy on, and assassinate the others. yo what? lets send some level 1 assassins to try and kill the level 16 Lady Jamandi.

every npc has a backstory that means they SHOULD have a number of levels in their classes. none of them are fresh out of the homestead recruits.

game should start at level 3 at least. possibly level 5+


idk. some games have no problem with throwing a ton of character creation options the player doesn't really understand at them. not sure why its that big of a deal in these games.
Alternatively, I also get the desire to through a "hook" at players right away. opposed to... killing rats in a barn. and yes, many games solve that problem with prologues featuring high level characters who lose. give the players a taste of endgame, and skills, and how they work with "complete" characters, then give them their PC which they can build. its hard to argue against that format, aside from, it would get stale if EVERY game did it.

Hsven't seen the simple, "adventuring guild/sellsword" start in some time.
 
Urlithani

Urlithani

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Caliane said:
Pathfinder:kingmaker has this same problem.

Lets invite a bunch of level 1 nobodies to the keep, and challenge them with killing the Staglord, so we can award them Nobility, and a Baronship over the entire land.
yo what? lets send a level 1 sorcerer to spy on, and assassinate the others. yo what? lets send some level 1 assassins to try and kill the level 16 Lady Jamandi.

every npc has a backstory that means they SHOULD have a number of levels in their classes. none of them are fresh out of the homestead recruits.

game should start at level 3 at least. possibly level 5+


idk. some games have no problem with throwing a ton of character creation options the player doesn't really understand at them. not sure why its that big of a deal in these games.
Alternatively, I also get the desire to through a "hook" at players right away. opposed to... killing rats in a barn. and yes, many games solve that problem with prologues featuring high level characters who lose. give the players a taste of endgame, and skills, and how they work with "complete" characters, then give them their PC which they can build. its hard to argue against that format, aside from, it would get stale if EVERY game did it.

Hsven't seen the simple, "adventuring guild/sellsword" start in some time.
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I dont agree because Kingmaker's narrative stays on a more believable track founded by its source material than BG3 is.

If you know D&D and joined a D&D game, the PC's being hired to clear out some bandits at level 1 is very believable. A journey through the Underdark and one of the layers of the Nine halls at level 1? Not really believable at all.

Restov is sending ordinary humanoid adventurers and mercs into the stolen lands to stop ordinary humanoid bandits. They also sent multiple groups to secure the Stolen Lands (Hannis Drelev was sent to tame the Glenebon Uplands, Maegar Varn to Varnhold/Dunsward). Being awarded a Barony was the carrot beyond monetary rewards. If you failed, they will just send more adventurers after you have weakened the bandits some. Eventually someone will succeed, and you will have a Baron of a wild land, who is both a vassal and security in the form of a buffer state. (Obviously nobody expected the protagonist to overcome all the odds, absorb the other baronies, Pitax, and defend and found a new kingdom the size of the state of Maine, but hey...).

As for the assassination attempt, they hired a bunch of mooks to run around the castle to occupy the guards mostly. In the final fight shes facing off against a frost giant while you cleanup some minions who were trying to assist.

Ukerric said:
I knew who I was going to see, but I did not expect to see it that way...
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I had to share it. I am still not sure if I am amused or disturbed.
 
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Nirgon

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Are there not some scattered lower to mid tier areas before getting too deep into the underdark?
 
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TJT

TJT

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Kirun said:
Yeah, story was always my largest fear with this game. Larian has CRPG gameplay down like a motherfucker - in fact, they might even be the best in the business. Problem is, their storytelling is complete ass. I literally couldn't finish DoS 1 because of how absurd it got once you go to the ice/snow area. DoS 2 was better, but still had a ton of issues with absurdity.

I'm sure I'll play this once it is finally finished, but I'm looking forward to Wrath of the Righteous far more than this.
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DOS 2 "Story" soars to mediocre if you play it as, "we are randoms wandering through the forest" and ignore everything else about it lol. The story in Kingmaker was so much better, and coherent.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Urlithani said:
I dont agree because Kingmaker's narrative stays on a more believable track founded by its source material than BG3 is.

If you know D&D and joined a D&D game, the PC's being hired to clear out some bandits at level 1 is very believable. A journey through the Underdark and one of the layers of the Nine halls at level 1? Not really believable at all.

Restov is sending ordinary humanoid adventurers and mercs into the stolen lands to stop ordinary humanoid bandits. They also sent multiple groups to secure the Stolen Lands (Hannis Drelev was sent to tame the Glenebon Uplands, Maegar Varn to Varnhold/Dunsward). Being awarded a Barony was the carrot beyond monetary rewards. If you failed, they will just send more adventurers after you have weakened the bandits some. Eventually someone will succeed, and you will have a Baron of a wild land, who is both a vassal and security in the form of a buffer state. (Obviously nobody expected the protagonist to overcome all the odds, absorb the other baronies, Pitax, and defend and found a new kingdom the size of the state of Maine, but hey...).

As for the assassination attempt, they hired a bunch of mooks to run around the castle to occupy the guards mostly. In the final fight shes facing off against a frost giant while you cleanup some minions who were trying to assist.


I had to share it. I am still not sure if I am amused or disturbed.
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Yeah I thought this was really clear. Restov didn't give a fuck if you died and didn't even give a fuck about you being a Baron. Best case for them was you build up the area and create a buffer in the Stolen Lands against Pitax and their rivals. If you died they would have sent more. If you died and killed a few bandit for them it was still beneficial. If you succeeded it was much more beneficial to them.

Restov's play there was logical and solid, from their perspective.
 
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Chanur

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TJT said:
Yeah I thought this was really clear. Restov didn't give a fuck if you died and didn't even give a fuck about you being a Baron. Best case for them was you build up the area and create a buffer in the Stolen Lands against Pitax and their rivals. If you died they would have sent more. If you died and killed a few bandit for them it was still beneficial. If you succeeded it was much more beneficial to them.

Restov's play there was logical and solid, from their perspective.
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Thats the benefit for hiring adventurers in RPGs and why it makes sense to hire level 1s. If you die they owe nothing and if you solve the problem who cares what level/notoriety they were.
 
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