Bloodborne

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Izuldan_sl

shitlord
154
0
In the weeks leading up to the release of a souls game I always tell myself that I'm going to finish it completely blind to outside help. Not read the forums or not look up any kind of online help or information. Invariably that lasts about a day or less before I break down.
First time posting in this thread even though I've been playing this game for a bit.....I've played the Demon Souls and Dark Souls games before, so I knew what to expect going in, and I have to say this game does not disappoint. This game in one word is......awesome. So fun, especially when it's not spoiled for you. I highly recommend not using spoiler sites or walkthroughs. I have been following this thread, but have avoided clicking on the hidden links, so thanks to those who have been keeping spoilers out of the main thread.

That being said, I found the boss list you guys posted to be interesting. BSB was like zero problems for me. He's been the only boss I've one-shotted so far....I accidentally stumbled into his room, and I just used a pillar to block him LOS from me. Everytime he was done lunging I would just stab him in the butt. Rinse/repeat. He managed to poison me only once.

Father G on the other hand....what a complete PITA. I must have failed at least 10 times on him. I think I was underlevelled at the time, or perhaps just too newby lol. Anyways, I eventually broke down and used the summoning bell for help. Even then I died two more times before I was able to kill him.

So far I've killed......Cleric Beast, Father G, BSB, and Witches. From what I can tell the only other path I can take now is Vicar.

Two other observations/insights from someone who hasn't used any guides.....

1) I thought the Hemwick Charnel Lane lamp was broken.....I kept checking at the Headstone and the name wasn't popping up.....turns out it's on the headstone next to it. Duh. Also goes to show how much of the game I have left to go (a lot apparently) which is cool.

2) I had no idea that the Insight messenger sold so many goods. I had gotten a lot of insight with nothing to spend it on, so I though I would just spend it on Fire Paper (which I tend to use very liberally). Low and behold I scrolled through his inventory and he had a bunch of armor sets and other stuff on sell also!
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,669
31,536
This is going to sound stupid, but where do you get the bell to help other people?
 

Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,576
1,260
This is going to sound stupid, but where do you get the bell to help other people?
Need 10 insight. When you have that, the fountain at the top in the hunters dream will activate and you can buy the two bells there for 1 insight each.
 

spronk

FPS noob
23,364
27,233
well shit im up to like 25 insight and had no idea there was an insight vendor lol. i thought the doll was gonna sell shit eventually

after i kill a boss i have to take like a 2 day break from the game to decompress
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
well shit im up to like 25 insight and had no idea there was an insight vendor lol. i thought the doll was gonna sell shit eventually

after i kill a boss i have to take like a 2 day break from the game to decompress
Go into the building in Hunter's dream, and then look for the little bird bath looking thing outside the building on the left. That's the insight vendor.

edit: Rereading it doesn't look like you're having trouble finding it, my mistake.
 

Budos

Golden Knight of the Realm
593
10
it's definitely the closest thing to Lovecraft that I've seen in game form in my life for sure.
As someone who's never read any Lovecraft literature, what is so similar to Bloodborne besides monsters with tentacle mouths? I always assumed his stuff wasn't super gritty, just thought provoking/semi-dark.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
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As someone who's never read any Lovecraft literature, what is so similar to Bloodborne besides monsters with tentacle mouths? I always assumed his stuff wasn't super gritty, just thought provoking/semi-dark.
Lovecraft's works are generally super dark, evoking monstrous ancient gods and foul rituals. Insanity is a strong theme. Humans that sell their souls to gods of the deep oceans and become like fishmen and shit, making human sacrifices to Dagon and whatnot. There's definitely some strong inspiration from Lovecraft.

You should DEFINITELY read some of his best stuff, like Call of Cthulhu and Shadow over Innsmouth. Lovecraft was a master of his trade.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
As someone who's never read any Lovecraft literature, what is so similar to Bloodborne besides monsters with tentacle mouths? I always assumed his stuff wasn't super gritty, just thought provoking/semi-dark.
Vague stuff, stuff dealing with psychosis, generally victorian era, forbidden rites. Of anything modern the first couple Hellraisers are probably the closest Lovecraftian stuff has gotten to mainstream especially the first. (Not that it's a great fit, but closest that has come - here's to hoping Del Toro does At the Mountains of Madness justice)

Even the ending fits with a Lovecraftian theme:
Ending 1: Waking from a dream that you were toiling with the entire time, 2: Accepting your place as basically High Priest of the Moon Presence, 3: Fighting down the Moon Presence only to have turned into a newborn Old One yourself

Heck, most of the really big bads in Lovecraft are even referenced commonly as "Great Old Ones" - note the big bads in this are "Old Ones". I'm quite sure that it's delberate.

Also the storytelling method of leaving details out for you to fill in with your imagination - which has been a Dark Souls staple - was really something that Lovecraft mastered for terror/horror purposes.
 

Devlin

Golden Squire
832
9
Yeah, the whole Victorian otherworldly Gothic setting is very reminiscent of Lovecraft's work.

This game is a motherfucker for sure. I haven't played a Souls game since DS1 and had completely forgotten there is no map system or any info whatsoever about what's going on around you or where to go next.

I'm so far not very far into the game and even though it can be a cheap bitch the learning curve is so well balanced that making progress of any kind is very rewarding. It took me a while to get accustomed to the new combat style but once you get into the flow enemies that were kicking your ass become a breeze. Then a new enemy comes on the scene and puts you back 30 minutes instantly.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,669
31,536
I think I am going to go against the grain and say that I think this game is flawed in a few ways. Ignoring the load time for the moment, the simple fact is that I am just not having much fun with this game and see zero replay value, unlike all previous Souls games. I think the central issue is that the character options are fairly limited in this game. Basically, since their are no shields, magic, real armor, and finite parry, all characters essentially end up being played as dodgy two hander guy build from the previous games. There simply is no other way to play the game. In fact, you can pretty much just swing the axe or saw until you nab the two hander, never bothering with anything else in combat. This has led to some issues for me enjoying it.

1) Boss Design- The bosses and indeed trash are designed around the characters limited options, resulting in a lot of samey bullshit. I feel this is largely due to the lack of both defensive builds and ranged weapons. So pretty much every boss mostly boils down to roll past swipe repeat, until it goes super saiyan 3 for the last part of its health bar. There are some exceptions and sometimes you need farmed item X to cheese it, but most are similar. It would be a lot like if every boss in DS2 was basically a reskinned Pursuer.

2) Itemization- There is none. Once you get the holy sword, the other weapons might as well not even exist. Armor is just cosmetics and resists, with no choices to be made like the rest of the series. I know they wanted to prevent cheap wins, but its just.... boring.. not being able to do poise guy, bow guy, faith guy, and so on.

3) Difficulty- In prior games in the series, if you hit the wall in a zone, you could farm up a new weapon or swap out gear to try a new tactic to work past it if you were not up to the basic execution. This one, the execution is all there is, so until you do it how they want you are not going past no matter how much you farm. This is not a complaint about it being hard, as I feel Demons Souls was by far the hardest of the series. This is more about the lack of options. There is no Iron King positioning fight or Smelter gear check fight, to say nothing of the other numerous unique bosses in the last three games. Its all dodge/swipe/run.

The game has a couple other things I really feel are a huge step back from prior games, too:

1) Level Design- Gorgeous, but the whole game seems to be designed to make swinging your weapon without it banging the walls as hard as possible. Add to that tons of obvious ambush gimmicks that the game copy pastes all over the place and I think the layouts have taken a step backward. In prior games, claustrophobia was the exception NOT the rule.

2) Camera- Worst in the series. The lock on drops out randomly and spins shit all over when it doesn't ditch the lock. The new twitch combat and emphasis on obstacles in the environment greatly aggravate this.

3) Farming- Its one thing to make me wait for long loads after each death. Its another to make me refarm heal potions periodically. Making me do this with the twitch combat and a complete lack of tactical variety makes it too grindy for me. And I say this as someone who did not abuse glitches in any of these games to get souls. It just drives home the limited nature of the combat, compared to the rest of the series. Not being able to direct travel from one lantern to another just piles it on, too. I mean, the first game in the series had better fast travel.

4) PvE Coop- I wanted to break the boredom of farming by doing some co op. Not only does this shit not work, but the giant text box it flashes while it is busy not working blocks important parts of the UI. Seriously fire whoever thought that was a good idea.

ITs still a good game, especially for the PS4. But its the most limited and poorly executed of the series.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
lol, its so easy in the longrun though - it really seems like they amped up the value on leveling up in this versus Souls series - durability on characters go through the roof by the time you're getting near 100 SL.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Phaz - Have you beaten it or are you just quoting partially in? Because it really reads like you're partially in...

1) Boss Design- The bosses and indeed trash are designed around the characters limited options, resulting in a lot of samey bullshit. I feel this is largely due to the lack of both defensive builds and ranged weapons. So pretty much every boss mostly boils down to roll past swipe repeat, until it goes super saiyan 3 for the last part of its health bar. There are some exceptions and sometimes you need farmed item X to cheese it, but most are similar. It would be a lot like if every boss in DS2 was basically a reskinned Pursuer.
There's some reused gimmicks, but most are unique from each other - yes, some basic strategies do work frequently (although not always, and for those cases it doesn't it's basically instant suicide)

You played a different Dark Souls than me if you don't think most of the bosses in the other Souls had many common elements. (And Smelter a gear check? WTF - gear didn't matter that fight, he's basically identical to many of the Bloodborne fights besides the AE pulse)

2) Itemization- There is none. Once you get the holy sword, the other weapons might as well not even exist. Armor is just cosmetics and resists, with no choices to be made like the rest of the series. I know they wanted to prevent cheap wins, but its just.... boring.. not being able to do poise guy, bow guy, faith guy, and so on.
Armor was always a ridiculously minor factor - and Holy Sword I found to be incredibly weak myself, playstyle matters - I stuck to the Cane and I'm very happy with it. Sword was terrible for me. I saw a streamer using Kirkhammer up through the finale. Axe a number have stuck with.

It was actually nice having itemization done in such a way you didn't have to keep saying "Oh, well that weapons garbage now, time to learn a new moveset" 10+ times during the game.

3) Difficulty- In prior games in the series, if you hit the wall in a zone, you could farm up a new weapon or swap out gear to try a new tactic to work past it if you were not up to the basic execution. This one, the execution is all there is, so until you do it how they want you are not going past no matter how much you farm. This is not a complaint about it being hard, as I feel Demons Souls was by far the hardest of the series. This is more about the lack of options. There is no Iron King positioning fight or Smelter gear check fight, to say nothing of the other numerous unique bosses in the last three games. Its all dodge/swipe/run.
No, just no - Level is a huge factor in this one, very much so compared to Souls - I used to not bother leveling anymore than I needed to for gear in Souls because it had so little impact (and is clearly demonstrated by people winning with SL1) - in Bloodborne leveling is crucial and improves survivability a ton. With how I made my build I could toe to toe with basically any trash even in the end phases. Hell, I face to faced Mergo and Gerhardt in some of their phases - soaking some damage then wailing back on them to get the free heals.

1) Level Design- Gorgeous, but the whole game seems to be designed to make swinging your weapon without it banging the walls as hard as possible. Add to that tons of obvious ambush gimmicks that the game copy pastes all over the place and I think the layouts have taken a step backward. In prior games, claustrophobia was the exception NOT the rule.
It's intended to be horror, not dark fantasy... thus... the above... it fits the format of the game perfectly.

2) Camera- Worst in the series. The lock on drops out randomly and spins shit all over when it doesn't ditch the lock. The new twitch combat and emphasis on obstacles in the environment greatly aggravate this.
Not once did I have a camera issue - sounds like a user issue.

3) Farming- Its one thing to make me wait for long loads after each death. Its another to make me refarm heal potions periodically. Making me do this with the twitch combat and a complete lack of tactical variety makes it too grindy for me. And I say this as someone who did not abuse glitches in any of these games to get souls. It just drives home the limited nature of the combat, compared to the rest of the series. Not being able to direct travel from one lantern to another just piles it on, too. I mean, the first game in the series had better fast travel.
I had to farm potions about a total of three times over the entire game - most areas had plenty of mobs with a potential drop - not to mention once you're getting a good number of souls per kill it just becomes more efficient to slap on Moon rune (or all 3 once you have them - they do stack) and just farm up 30k souls or so and max out the entire inventory + stash.

4) PvE Coop- I wanted to break the boredom of farming by doing some co op. Not only does this shit not work, but the giant text box it flashes while it is busy not working blocks important parts of the UI. Seriously fire whoever thought that was a good idea.

ITs still a good game, especially for the PS4. But its the most limited and poorly executed of the series.[/QUOTE]
 

Devlin

Golden Squire
832
9
A lot of it boils down to it not being a souls game, it shares a TON of similarities with them but the tempo is very different and takes getting used to.

In the Souls game you're rewarded for being very measured and taking out enemies in a surgical manner, in Bloodborne you're rewarded for taking chances and being more ferocious in your combat style.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,669
31,536
That might be part of it. I'm to old to enjoy twitch gaming anymore.
 

Kaige

<WoW Guild Officer>
<WoW Guild Officer>
5,565
12,703
Its more action-adventure than RPG like the older games in my opinion. I would enjoy it for what it is, a solid cousin series to another great set of games.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
That might be part of it. I'm to old to enjoy twitch gaming anymore.
It's not really twitchy though - frantic individual combats, but much of it is measured just like Souls was. As someone that was a heavy shield user in Souls (and will be again on Tuesday) it just swapped tap block in sync with the attacks (to not just waste stamina regen holding it the whole time) with dodge in sync with the attacks until an opening and then exploit the opening.

Almost everything has a Souls parallel, even the "parry" mechanic is fundamentally the same.

The only substantial difference is the difficulty in statting up and depth before you can start using magic via Hunters Tools. And itemization is shallow, but that's got pros and cons as I discussed earlier.
 

Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,576
1,260
Kind of relevant to the current discussion.

I am now 17 hours into the PS4 version of Dark Souls 2. Two great souls, and 5-6 minor bosses. Currently in the Iron Keep.

I have to say that for me, I enjoy Dark Souls 2 more.

In the Souls game you're rewarded for being very measured and taking out enemies in a surgical manner, in Bloodborne you're rewarded for taking chances and being more ferocious in your combat style.
I'd say this is very accurate. I am playing the build I always tend to fall on. Slight magic, quick sword, shield and semi good bow (dragonrider bow for DS2). Can't really use the top of the line stuff in any playstyle, but can change up tactics as needed.

In the Demon / Dark souls games, the ability to go ranged, and have ranged used against you, creates a very different setting. If you rush into areas with anything else than the mobs that die in one hit, you die. Arrows that knock you off ledges, mobs that hang from ledges to ambush you higher up unless you take them out from below.

It had been a while since I had played Dark Souls, but not tried Bloodbone since I got the DS2 remake. Other than in graphics, I find it hard to see where Bloodborne excels. Except perhaps in direct movement of the character. Bloodborne is still my GOTY so far, by a large margin (as I don't count the DS2 remake), but playing DS 2 now has made me notice all the things that have been stripped from Bloodborne. It's a fun game, but it does feel like the arcade version of a Souls game.
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
7,560
2,299
Regarding the no mimics in Bloodborne, I kind of felt like the larvae monsters coming out of chests on the way to Rom were an ode to mimics. Anyone else? I can't think of any specifics because I only ran through the area once, one-shot Rom.