Boston Marathon Explosion - Today's Topics: Public Schools
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Falstaff
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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actually I should add the word thread to the thread title... because people need to know this is a thread.
It absolutely is segregation of the worst order. The kids have no say in the level of education they receive or the environment in which they receive it. To provide one kid a clearly superior education and environment compared to another based on their respective parental income is segregating them.
Finland has no private schools, period; they're all public and all equal in terms of quality. They have no standardized tests. Each teacher grades the students as they see fit. They pay their teachers well. They've fixed social inequality by providing every kid the same opportunity regardless of socioeconomic background. They don't conceive of it as a 'competition'. They destroy us in every measurable statistic when measuring education.
No question, it's an absolute institutional failure on the part of this country that we conceive of education as a 'good' to be bought and sold on a market.
I'll link the same article as before:http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...yDhQE.facebook
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
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Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Oh thank god it's the onion, I couldn't fucking imagine a judge in his right mind that would give this man bail.
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
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That's really irrelevant. Segregation in common parlance refers to racial segregation. You guys are stretching the definition to the point of absurdity.
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LOL @ comparing Finland with USA in regards to schools. Inner city Finland is like Suburbitopia in US.
I'm not getting into word semantics bs, but it's used: such as segregating the dangerous criminals in a prison from the docile ones.
You really are segregating children. The children don't have a choice, and the level of education a child gets is pretty much the most important factor in their entire lives and, in aggregate, directly determines whether a society is a functional and healthy one in terms of mobility. As it is today, the US is a pretty dysfunctional and unhealthy society.
If you'd read the article at all, they make the comparison because you can compare them: lots of policy is instituted at a state level. And we still fail. Where we succeed is the top half we segregate - private vs. public, which doesn't do much good for American society; it just does lots of good for the people who pay for the segregation.
Loser Araysar
Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
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What other educational systems do children have a choice in?
Here's a fun fact: 7 year olds dont get to pick where they go to school whether its Marxtopia, Chicago or Harare. The whole argument is veering into the land of the preposterous.
This is the guy that tried to compared Japan to America for gun control and failed miserably at it.
Here's the problem in the most precise language possible.
There is no market for education. There is no 'commodity' of education. That it to say - every single person, child needs it equally. There is no kid who needs it more or less than another.
But because of how we conceive of ourselves, we create a market for it and let people buy better versions of it. What this does is instead of educating the citizenry, it further socioeconomically stratifies them. Now, because you have this two-tier structure of education, Billy Bob, to provide a chance at social mobility to his kid, not only has to work hard and teach his kid to do the same, but he has send him to a decent university that, thanks to the market system we made for it, costs minimum 20k a year. But then, in order to get in, he has to go to a private high school, and again, thanks to the institutional structure we've made out of it, now has to pay 15k a year for that.
You can get into arguments about scholarships and work programs for the less fortunate, but that isn't the point I'm making at all. The point is those opportunities exist because the system is flawed in the first place. You should not have a tiered system of education (or healthcare) if you want a more prosperous society. And that is precisely the problem, and through that problem, is where you get our crime rates, our incarceration rates, our violence, and crazies who want to blow everything up.
You remove the tiers of that social structure and flatten it out for all. That's step 1, which is what Finland did.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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This is...a strange way to put things. Children need to be educated to at minimum level for competency in the modern world, meaning, they need a salable skill set, the capacity to engage in daily mathematical and logical endeavours, and they need the capacity to reason through problems they may encounter on a daily basis.
But there is definitely an upper limit on how much education a child requires prior to secondary education. They need to be able to step into the start of secondary education without taking remedial courses, they need to be competent to about a high school graduate level of education, if that education included technical training.
Beyond that, not every kid needs "equal education" because not every career requires "equal education". You don't need to take the HVAC installer how to do open heart surgery. A car mechanic has no need to comprehend how a human heart pumps blood. Would that information be useful? Define useful. If you mean interesting and enlightening to know, then sure, its useful. If you mean do you need this knowledge in order to perform car repair, then absolutely it is not useful and not necessary.
Every child needs equal access to early childhood developmental learning and education. Every child needs education to the point of competency in the modern world. Not every child needs to know everything and striving for equality in that regards is nonsense that is doomed to failure.
What they need is structure guiding them towards being productive members of society with the capacity to continue their education, should they choose to, after high school. That is what every child needs equally in terms of education. Beyond that, though, I do not agree with your statement that every single person needs exactly the same type and amount of education in all places, at all times. The bottom baseline should be flat and no one should go under it, but above it, there should absolutely be room for stratification. The idea that you're ever going to make every person perfectly equal in education, in life outcomes, etc. is nonsense.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't America essentially pioneer public schools in the modern era?
Sure, you can make points about quality (which frequently is a function of money, which in turn relies of the overall wealth of the community/state said school is in), but the fact is that no child is denied an education due to inability to pay.
I agree that there is too large a focus for college degrees for jobs that really don't need one. It's basically a lazy way for HR depts to determine competency (degree in religion? Np! Welcome to xyz inc!). That's part of the reason you are starting to see the rise of college backed competency degrees for people who can demonstrate they know stuff. Fraction of the time and cost.
Anyways, back to bomber, some of the info being uncovered indicates the older brother may have been radicalized here vs. Overseas (at least initially).
Sure, you can make points about quality (which frequently is a function of money, which in turn relies of the overall wealth of the community/state said school is in), but the fact is that no child is denied an education due to inability to pay.
I agree that there is too large a focus for college degrees for jobs that really don't need one. It's basically a lazy way for HR depts to determine competency (degree in religion? Np! Welcome to xyz inc!). That's part of the reason you are starting to see the rise of college backed competency degrees for people who can demonstrate they know stuff. Fraction of the time and cost.
Anyways, back to bomber, some of the info being uncovered indicates the older brother may have been radicalized here vs. Overseas (at least initially).
Didn't the onion used to create clever satire and not just troll news stories?