Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Boston Marathon Explosion - Today's Topics: Public Schools
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The discussion about public schools hit some derail on some subpoint about what other countries do with their schools I think and that led into whether or not China was a "developed" country and then communism/not communism and now anti-capitalism.
edit:// also a bunch of stuff about what constitutes slavery
edit:// also a bunch of stuff about what constitutes slavery
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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No, see, you don't get to pick how the analogy goes, because that's avoiding the question. Cry about the specifics of the analogy all you want, the fact of whether our village chieftan actually owns ALL the fields is irrelevant. He owns the largest proportion, and he is directly profiting from the efforts of others who irrigated his fields for him, something he couldn't have done on his own. Further, he is profiting more than any one else in the village. Your nitpick attempt to avoid the question just continues to make clear your inability to address it. Boo hoo I didn't make it exactly the way you would have liked. There is still clear profit by the chieftan from the surplus labor of others. I could have gone on, I could have said they made the chieftan king over it, and his son became king after him, and he demanded a portion of everyone's crops each year in payment for what his father gave them. We could come up with a million different ways to alter the scenario in this way or that, but the fact is that in every one, you would hem and haw and try to dispute some minor point or another about it.
Because you can't answer the question.
The problem isn't with the analogy. Its with your inability to retort it. And you crying about heavy handed points is of course hilarity encapsulated.
Fuse
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hodj
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I think you mean
"I, Mikhail, came into the thread the second I was unbanned and tried to take the conversation where I try to take every conversation and succeeded."
added:
See right here
This conversation has been substantially the same since last night.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I submit the following in response.
If Hodj *was* a smart people, he would have already put Mikhail on ignore.
hodj
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I was going to do that the other day. But the thing is, he got banned, unbanned and rebanned again like within a day. That's so funny I had to stay tuned in for another episode.
I'm a junkie, I know. Its a problem.
I've already pointed out why the analogy doesn't map properly.
No dumbdumb. The point is about whether or not they own the product of their labor. What are the rules afterward for control over that ditch? "Benefited from" is not fucking at all what we're talking about here.
Sort of. If "profit" = "benefit in any way whatsoever" then sure. That's not what I'm talking about when I'm talking about profit (because in this case he is laboring as well). Conflating that sort of actual work with the "work" of capital ownership is complete nonsense. There's nothing about organization that says that it has to be tied to one person who receives disproportionate compensation for doing so. In your analogy you sidestep this issue by making it so that the chief is the only one capable of doing so (thus muddying the waters about his ability to get more benefit from having the most land). I don't buy the notion that poor people are poor because they're too lazy and stupid. I don't buy the notion that they already have all the material inputs they require and they're just not able to make shit happen because they're incapable. Those are the contours of a masturbatory fantasy world used by people with money to make themselves cum harder when they're screaming out their own name while jerkin' it. It's just bullshit. The real world is that it takes a lot of fucking money to even try to play the game and it's mostly a matter of luck, even when you're in a position to sit down at that table.
hodj
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And I"ve already pointed out why you're wrong.
no, its a question of whether they benefitted equally from the production of their labor or not. And clearly they didn't. So by your logic they're slaves.
Who cares? Its not part of the analogy. Cry harder.
Yeah, it is. Profiting from your labor is a benefit.
No, he's managing. There's a difference, in your world view, apparently, between managing, and organizing, and laboring. Its your view that correlates organization and management and ownership roles as inherently exploitative because no direct labor, only capital investment or managerial talents are required.
No, its not. Capital ownership is just a more complex version of this. You study the simple to comprehend the complex.
It does when it took disproportionate investment to reach that organizational stage in which compensation becomes possible.
My analogy was simple for simplicities sake. Attempts to cry about it are attempts to avoid having to answer the direct question, which you have still failed to do. Were those people slaves to the chief?
Stop beating around the bush begging for excuses and exemptions and reasons why its so UNFAIR that the analogy is phrased this way versus that. Distraction fallacies and appealing to the nature of the analogy as flawed
Nonsense. I said he learned the techniques from a village not far down river. Any tribes person that desires can go down there and learn how to do it. Again, you're trying to complain and cry about the format because its inconvenient to you, not because its flawed. I already accounted for every complaint and issue you've come up with in the story, and you just can't handle it.
And yet surprisingly it happens in every thread you post in. So maybe it just take you plus any one other.
No you haven't.
Well sort of. They were already in what sounds like a deeply unequal society and that played itself out in the distribution of results. They're slaves, but not because they worked for someone who worked as an organizer.
lol well it happens to matter in terms of the mapping back to the real world and the ethical implications. If you'd rather act like a baby instead, that's fine. I don't need to talk to you anymore.
hodj
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Yeah, its called my entire post up there. I realize you don't read anything anyone else says, but there it is. Say hi to it. Hi rebuttal! How are you?
So communally based tribal societies which democratically elect their leaders based on public opinion of their peers is a deeply unequal society?
See, that's the thing. This is the 4th or 5th time you've said that in this thread. I don't think you're capable of not responding. I think its a compulsion. Hence the second you get unbanned, you're back, rapid fire spamming posts, looking for attention, trying to get someone to argue with you so you can berate them.
Doesn't work so well with me though.
I don't see it.
It is if those leaders get substantial material perks.
There's an occasional nugget of not totally stupid when you're feeling less petulant. It seems like as things grind on you start stamping your feet and basically insisting that I agree with you. At THAT point I say something and usually you come back to at least an attempt at rationality.
lol
Clearly.
hodj
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Not my responsibility
No, it really isn't. Here let me help educate you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_man_(anthropology)
I don't want you to agree with me, I want you to realize that your rapid fire spamming and attempting to bully everyone else on this forum isn't going to stand completely unopposed is what I really want. I want you to be a reasonable poster we can all have reasonable discussions with, rather than the one trick pony of regurgitated marxist dogma that you are currently, truth be told.
Nothing seems to be your responsiblity. You don't explain the details of your hypothetical and you don't have to because you "win." Good job, buddy.
You're posting at the same rate that I am. How am I bullying you? What are you talking about?
Sorry that a socialist analysis happens to hit a lot of political topics. Weird, huh? I'm not going to not believe that just because you say so or because most of the dummies here disagree with me. Sorry.
Intrinsic
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At this point I know more about the hypothetical Chieftain than I know about my mother-in-law.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Yeah its not my responsibility to teach you how to use your eyes and read.
Sure I did. You just didn't like them. Because it was inconvenient to your arguments.
Willful ignorance is still pretty ignorant.
That's a funny way to interpret you shoehorning every discussion into one on class and wealth disparity because you have a hard on for a 150 year dead bearded pederast.
Do you know what the details are about who owns the ditch after it gets dug?