Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

fanaskin

fanaskin

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Mist_sl said:
our brain has given us the ability to override our biology.
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only temporarily you cannot reasonably expect whole societies to use their frontal lobe to keep the subconscious in check 24/7

The subconscious is driving the boat most of the time
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Mist_sl said:
I specifically said it was a good thing.
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then why can't men and woman have societal niches, why can't construction workers be a male dominated field and nursing be a female dominated field and not treat it like it's societal repression.
 
Mist

Mist

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fanaskin_sl said:
then why can't men and woman have societal niches, why can't construction workers be a male dominated field and nursing be a female dominated field and not treat it like it's societal repression.
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I never disagreed with the idea of gender roles, I disagreed with the fact that they were largely biologically driven. Societies, and people, need structure and setting up rough guidelines for roles and behaviors based on gender has been demonstrated to be generally positive.

What's bad is when societies try and force a role onto people, or exclude people from certain roles based on race/gender/whatever. And when people scream SCIENCE, particularly highly contestable and circumspect science, as a justification for doing so, it's a crime against both science and society.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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I'm tired of men being the dominate force in logging, fishing, roofing, garbage collection, and construction. Why are there not more women steel workers? It's time to start a national program to give incentives for women to enter into the deadliest industries.

Wait, women just don't want to be coal miners? Just how deep does the repression go?!?
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

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Mist_sl said:
What's bad is when societies try and force a role onto people, or exclude people from certain roles based on race/gender/whatever. And when people scream SCIENCE, particularly highly contestable and circumspect science, as a justification for doing so, it's a crime against both science and society.
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Are people being forced into gender roles now? What exactly is your argument at this point?

I'm not sure how you guys have done it for this many pages. My hats off to you. It's heaps of evidence vs a hunch. You can't debate with someone who isn't interested in facts
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

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Mist_sl said:
There's fucking a dozen of you clowns posting at any given time, I'll respond to whatever the fuck I feel like.
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You've conveniently passed over pretty much everything I've said. You aren't interested in discussion. You're a societal troll of the highest magnitude. Keep responding to the easy ones. When you're interested in having a big person conversation, I'd be more than happy.

And for the record, there were only two of us clowns for about 2 hours last night and you still managed to ignore every point I brought up. Enjoy living in your fantasy world. Your argument is in tatters
 
Mist

Mist

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Jive Turkey_sl said:
Are people being forced into gender roles now? What exactly is your argument at this point?

I'm not sure how you guys have done it for this many pages. My hats off to you. It's heaps of evidence vs a hunch. You can't debate with someone who isn't interested in facts
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Where's your heaps of fucking evidence? It's the internet, you can find evidence to support ANY STUPID VIEWPOINT YOU WANT within 3 clicks of a Google search. There's a reason people go to fucking college to learn shit instead of just reading wikipedia all day. If you think you can settle a 100+ year old argument with a few links from google you're a fucking joke.
 
khalid

khalid

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Mist_sl said:
But let's go down this rabbit hole. What if we had good, solid scientific evidence that says that the overwhelming majority of black people are, biologically and neurologically speaking, good for nothing but being slaves? (People actually believed this.)

Just because the science supports this, does that suddenly make slavery a good idea? No, it doesn't, because human beings are different from animals. We have the capacity to self-examine, we have the capacity to examine our societies, and we have the capacity to change both ourselves and our societies. We've evolved as a species far faster than biological evolutionary forces would normally allow animals to evolve specifically because our brain has given us the ability tooverride our biology.You can call this a moral argument if you want to.

My other argument against sweeping generalizations about gender or race or whatever is a purely pragmatic one. Any statistical generalizations about an entire gender having some number of percentage point greater/lesser propensity for A vs B does not take into account the uniqueness of a given individual's ability, and it's the contributions of unique individuals that propel the species forward. We have countless historical examples of important works or ideas being suppressed or dismissed because of someone's race, sex or class.

No, we're not all created exactly equal, but when we treat each other as such, society works a whole lot better.
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OF FUCKING COURSE your last line is true. Who the fuck is arguing differently?

All anyone is saying is that we shouldn't freak out start crying "patriarchy" because too many women want to be social workers or teachers. Acknowledging the differences also lets us take an honest look at why boys might do worse in a school environment, or why women seem to be less interested in jobs involving cutthroat competition amongst peers.

Also, it doesn't mean we should simply be "okay" with biological differences that are negative either. Just because men might be more biologically programmed for violence, doesn't mean we should just be okay to that. What it means is we should factor that in with treatments or trying to find ways to deal with it.

Just saying, over and over again, just like those poor sociologists in that documentary "biological forces at work are tiny and the social forces at work are absolutely MASSIVE" does no good for anyone.
 
Mist

Mist

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Jive Turkey_sl said:
You've conveniently passed over pretty much everything I've said. You aren't interested in discussion. You're a societal troll of the highest magnitude. Keep responding to the easy ones. When you're interested in having a big person conversation, I'd be more than happy.

And for the record, there were only two of us clowns for about 2 hours last night and you still managed to ignore every point I brought up. Enjoy living in your fantasy world
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I responded to the one scientific article you linked. Where's the rest of your supposed evidence? What are the rest of your 'points?'
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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It's a set of ideas that reinforce the worldview she already has. There's not really anything to talk about. The only reason I keep posting is because every few days Mist will pass of something truly batshit crazy like its an obvious truth and I'm given this glimpse into the world she lives in. It helps me understand.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

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Mist_sl said:
Where's your heaps of fucking evidence? It's the internet, you can find evidence to support ANY STUPID VIEWPOINT YOU WANT within 3 clicks of a Google search. There's a reason people go to fucking college to learn shit instead of just reading wikipedia all day. If you think you can settle a 100+ year old argument with a few links from google you're a fucking joke.
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Reply to my points. You've taken the time to post this garbage; do something for your argument instead
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Mist_sl said:
What's bad is when societies try and force a role onto people, or exclude people from certain roles based on race/gender/whatever. And when people scream SCIENCE, particularly highly contestable and circumspect science, as a justification for doing so, it's a crime against both science and society.
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what are the big issues really, because most likely when you describe things as simple statements in monosyllables most people would probably agree, but when you start constructing the simple statements into your own sweeping generalizations it can easily wander into post modern absurdities
 
Mist

Mist

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khalid_sl said:
Just saying, over and over again, just like those poor sociologists in that documentary "biological forces at work are tiny and the social forces at work are absolutely MASSIVE" does no good for anyone.
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People keep bringing up the documentary as if it wasn't the very definition of cherrypicking evidence to support a hypothesis. Again, that is not how science works. You make a hypothesis and then you do your best to ATTACK the hypothesis. Again, that's why that documentary was bullshit, that's why Bullshit was bullshit. Yeah, it's fun to watch shit that agrees with your points of view but that doesn't make it science.
 
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