Jive Turkey
Karen
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Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...
- Thread starter Balthazar_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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why was that form of advertising more effective than previous versions? the same amount of "environmental conditioning" took place for previous advertising but it wasn't as effective when it appealed directly to rational decision making process.
the whole point is to show that people aren't rational decision makers that aren't guided by impulses and desires that you claimed they did. you seem to totally forget this cornerstone piece of logic that you tried to say that the frontal lobe and rational decision making is solely responsible or even mostly in control of your behavior, are you ready to say that was bullshit yet?
whether subconscious desires are shaped or innate is a different point but even if that's what you want to debate 1/2 of your original point has to be assumed as pure bullshit.
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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Don't be a pussy. Is hunger not an instinct? If we're going to defineanythingas instinctual, wouldn't hunger be among the most obvious choices?
Hunger was essential to out survival in primitive times, was it not? It still is for wild animals, is it not? And yet, hunger does not play an important role in our day to day lives, except as part of our planned routines, right?
Do you take issue with my classifying hunger as an instinct? Do you take issue with me saying it's an obsolete instinct that doesn't play a significant role in our higher-level brain functions? Please, let me know what, specifically, you have a problem with here. Don't hide behind lame insults as if just labeling something "pap" makes it so.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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Hunger as an instinct is almost impossible for many people to overpower with their higher brain functions. See: every fat person on the fucking planet. They know its bad for them to eat so much and they can't help themselves. They're hungry. If they were devoid of instinct and frontal-lobe rational, they'd stop fucking eating. But they don't. Instinct: 1 Frontal Lobe: 0
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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I'm saying the idea that gender plays a significant role in our higher-level decision making (such as choosing an education field or a career) is bullshit. External stimuli play a far, far stronger role in dictating our inclinations than any vestigial instincts that have long been rendered obsolete.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Well, you've gotten to the heart of this argument.
One side believes that unconscious, biological urges are the driving factor in occupational choices, even occupational choices that revolve solely around forebrain functions. Basically purely Freudian psychoanalytic theory. And there's just never been, since Freud, any real empirical evidence of the mechanisms of the unconscious or proof that psychoanalytic theory is anything other than a good guess for the time.
Then on my side of the argument, there's the next 100 years of sociology, psychosocial theory, behavioral psychology and developmental psychology, showing how social structures have a profound impact on our choices, on our development as human beings, and that socially enforced roles are so powerful that they can impact our own biology by influencing our hormone levels and by spurring structural changes within the brain. Behavioral psychology is the MOST empirically testable and reproducible framework within psychology and the most able to predict future behaviors, and it states that people's actions are primarily predicated on external incentives, not internal urges. Behaviorism has also showed that our internal 'feelings' are not the drivers of behavior but actually post-hoc justifications for what we just did. Behavioral psychology basically discounts all internal unconscious desires other than one overarching desire to seek out incentive/reward/reinforcement related activities. And those incentive/reward/reinforcement structures are created bysociety.
And there's the totality of my argument.
Tanoomba
ジョーディーすれいやー
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Why so many more fatties in the States than elsewhere, then? If this was purely instinctual and we share the same instincts, shouldn't every (developed) country have the same percentage of fatties, over various points in history? Maybe it's because programs like "health at any size" act as enablers for people who would otherwise be more critical of their own habits. Maybe it's because unhealthy food is both cheaper and more readily available than healthy alternatives. Maybe it's because Americans are raised to believe they deserve happiness, wherever they might find it, and that includes gorging on garbage food. Maybe it's because advertisers spend billions convincing people to ingest foods containing high levels of sugar and salt, both of which are habit-forming. ALL of these explanations are based of the effects of EXTERNAL STIMULI on the brain and have nothing to do with hunger overpowering higher brain function.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Then why are South Korean schoolgirls able to starve themselves for their looks? Oh right, because their society tells them that if they want to find a job when they graduate, they better look like all the other thin, pretty South Korean girls.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Every developed society has alarming rates of obesity. Some are lower than others probably owing to social pressures, but every developed society has obesity issues. Not ONE society has managed to frontal-lobe their way out of hunger causing them to be fat fucks.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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Asian culture absolutely does put more pressure on people to be thin (fat shaming is a sport among Asians) but even then, you see fat asians all over the place. Obviously their frontal lobes are failing them, eh? Instinct over reason? I thought you guys said instincts were obsolete?
Mist
REEEEeyore
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The World Factbook
Actually no, your logic sucks. Obesity is not positively correlated with economic development. A bunch of countries way fatter than us are barely even devleoped at all.
Meanwhile, there's South Korea, sitting down there at 7.7% and if you looked at just the girls it would be damn near 0%, because theirsocietyfat-shames the fuck out of them, which is why South Korean girls are the best girls to keep locked up in your basement because they're beautiful and they've been conditioned to not eat very much. Not that I would know or anything.
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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the huge problem I have with tanoomba's arguement is he says everything is external stimuli, without crediting the interaction it has on internal innate mechanics, of course everything is external stimuli dummy, the question is what is the interactions all these external stimuli have on internal innate mechanisms.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Also why are poor people most likely to be obese? You know, the poor, aka people who have done the worst at responding tosociety's incentive structure?
EDIT: Quoted the wrong post.
Lendarios
Trump's Staff
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The hunger feeling drives everything you do. It just works as very potent precursor. For example.. the reason most people work, is so, THEY CAN EAT!!! If i choose to quit my job and i run out of money, the hunger feeling will make my life miserable. It will consume my whole existence, the same way it does to people in third world country, and very poor people with nothing to eat. The feeling is not gone, it is there very real, every time i must prepare food to eat, every time i must work in order to have money to buy such food.
Also BTW hunger is not an instinct. Hunger is like pain a physical state that causes severe discomfort. An instinct is an spontaneous unconscious reaction to something, like fear of fire, dark, sex.
Also BTW hunger is not an instinct. Hunger is like pain a physical state that causes severe discomfort. An instinct is an spontaneous unconscious reaction to something, like fear of fire, dark, sex.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Actually "I bet" the obesity rate is about 32% in SK, according to the link I provided. I don't need to speculate, they obviously aren't conquering their hunger instinct.
The better question in your link would be Japan, which is only 5%.
Japan Has Cut Obesity to 3.5% in a Controversial Way That Wouldnt Fly in America - Mic
Still 24% of Japanese have a BMI over 25. From my previous link, over 32% of South Koreans are > 25 BMI.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/ags/umrfwp/14321.html
Even with SEVERE social fat-shaming, people are still fat. GO FIGURE.
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Its funny on a somewhat related subject, ever eaten with someone that comes from a multi-offspring family? They have this natural hoarding tendency when the eat or are around food. Like all their brothers and sisters fought over food scraps. Not saying all of them are like this, but I definitely know of a few people that act like this around food.
Also those fuckers that always have to come over and inspect what you are eating, when having lunch. "Hey what you got there?" GTFO!
Also those fuckers that always have to come over and inspect what you are eating, when having lunch. "Hey what you got there?" GTFO!