Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

Mist_sl said:

The fact that rapes are declining statistically is not actually a consolation if you happen to be an actual rape victim. If it makes it less likely that you'll believed, it can potentially hurt you.

It's really hard to call it a 'moral panic.' Moral panics are urban legends like razor blades in halloween candy, aka things that never actually happened.

Plenty of rapes are actually happening on campuses. Campus rape is not an urban legend. Whether it's 1 in 5 girls or 1 in 20 girls, it's still a high occurrence of a very serious crime with very serious, potentially life-long trauma implications.

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Moral panics are not just caused from things that don't exist, plenty of moral panics have happened over real threats. Communism? There reallywereCommunist spies in the U.S., they really were trying to do bad things. Some of the secrets they were stealing could have potentially catastrophic consequences, and lead to real dangers in American lives......And yet it wasstilla moral panic. The existence of a threat does not preclude the public acting like retards. I present exhibit: Ebola. The public is fucking stupid.

A moral panic is not when the threat is not real. A moral panic is when the scale of the threat is vastly outstripped by the perception, and when decision making is driven by emotions and fear. The campus rape "epidemic" is a moral panic at this point. That does not mean it's not a real problem that requires solutions.

Mist_sl said:

The communism thing is something else entirely that isn't a moral panic. If communists wanted to influence America towards instituting communist policies, that's just the democratic process in action. Witch hunts against communism were a violation of free speech and free association, and the right to both hold and espouse various political views.

So that's a really bad example.

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You realize there were more elements than the Hollywood blacklist, correct? The core of the issue was actually hunting foreign agents working against U.S. interests on U.S. soil. It GREW into being against free speech and against logical debate of the merits of Communism BECAUSE of the threat the Soviets posed. Which again, was a real threat--many state secrets were outright stolen preceding the panic, and many of them from American citizens who became resources due to ideological associations. (Edit: It should be know this is post WW2 mostly, there were communists scare prior as well, and a lot of court decisions over it--but the post WW2 activities were ignited because of legitimate spying.)

It's actually aspot onexample. It started as a real threat, that because of anoverreactionbegan affecting people who were completely innocent and only associated by a loose grouping--in this case a political ideology. I mean, it's nearly the same thing--you have a (Very) small group of trouble makers who can cause real, terrible damage, so the public flips their shit and begins wanting laws or social conventions (Black lists) which will hurt innocent people just because those are 'acceptable" casualties to get the bad apples. So, it's an excellent example, in fact the whole methodology and reasoning of Unamerican Activities (Post WW2) was frighteningly close to the stuff you say in this thread

Mist_sl said:

It's not a moral panic because there absolutely is an epidemic of schools letting fraternities and sororities get away with illegal and antisocial activities because they want that sweet sweet greek alumni money. Rapes are a very real byproduct of that.

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Do you have evidence of this "epidemic"? Part of what a moral panic is, is the eventual misconstruing of terms. Epidemic means there should be clear, highly visible signs of this...yet rape statistics are dropping enormously across all sectors of life. I don't think epidemic means, what you think it means.

Mist_sl said:

The scale of the problem is still extremely high given the psychological impact of a very serious category of crime. It's amazing how much police enforce incredibly minor offenses and how little they give a shit about rapes.

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Police have special units just for rapes. We have special legal processes for them. And Campuses have special resources for victims. I do NOT know how you can say the police, government or ANY level of this society "doesn't give a shit about rapes". I think what you're trying to say is "I can't believe they give the accused a chance to defend himself". And specify what petty crime gets more attention? I'm guessing you mean being caught with drugs, or something. Well, I'd agree drug crimes are silly--however, the reason why they seem easier to prosecute, is because they are. If you're caught literally doing something illegal, open and shut--it's just a matter of the police having followed procedure well. Sex is not a crime...Therefor part of the process is finding out whether his vein of sex was criminal. This makes it immensely more complex than finding a joint in a kid's hand...I hope you understand that.

Mist_sl said:

On the last point, I'll just say we live in a society where you can be killed by a cop during a jaywalking stop, yet serial rapists can easily go free. That's fucked.

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What is your solution?

Mist_sl said:

I had a big long post written up but I just don't care enough. I think most of what you just said is just wordy bullshit.

Incidents of rape on campuses, while dropping, are still extremely high for such a serious crime. Period.

Just because incidents of HIV are dropping, doesn't mean you stop making AIDS drugs. An epidemic that's under control can still be widespread.

EDIT: It's actually a lot like AIDS. People stopped giving a shit about AIDS once public perception was that it was under control, but that doesn't mean it's not still killing people. That's exactly what's happening here: "Rapes are dropping, so lets stop giving a shit about rapes."

On the last point, I'll just say we live in a society where you can be killed by a cop during a jaywalking stop, yet serial rapists can easily go free. That's fucked.

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You're right, you just don't care enough--you're interested in moral panic or an emotional position, not a substantive discourse on the problem. When you're challenged, you resort to hyperbole and whining about how no one understands you. Not once in the whole conversation here has ANYONE ever said to give up on rape; rather they are askingwhy the lack of fact checkingand rationality surrounding such a serious crime? Why the need for bullshit statistics? It IS a serious enough crime on it's own merits to NOT need assholes trying to make you believe gang rape is an every day occurrence that a school would willfully ignore. At this point, the hysterics is just having the crying wolf effect--it's bad for everyone. Adding to that fire by not advocating for due process and rational investigation? Is not helping rape victims.

Mist_sl said:

On the last point, I'll just say we live in a society where you can be killed by a cop during a jaywalking stop, yet serial rapists can easily go free. That's fucked.

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On the last point. I'll just say we live in a society where innocent men can be driven out of their homes by even afabricationof a rape story, that's how sensitive society is toward rape. Yet we have women who aren't happy without lynchings. That's fucked. (Is that how this works?)

Lithose, please stop responding until she proposes her solution. The last 3 fucking times she brought this up, all she has done is accuse everyone else of being rape apologists and not actually had a position herself.

Mist_sl said:

And how frequently does that occur compared to real rapes?

That's my whole point. It's YOU with the moral panic over fake rape accusations, which happen far, far less than actual rapes, which are still way too frequent to be considered a moral panic.

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How often does that occur compared to Jaywalkers being shot? See, I thought I was making a comparison to all the jaywalkers society wrongfully kills...Which I suspect false accusations of rapes is somewhat higher (Which counters your stupid fucking position we are harder on jaywalkers--no.). Are we back to actual substantive arguments now? Or do you want to continue the hyperbolic statements?

Also, we don't KNOW how many false accusations there are. You know, as well as I do, the VAST majority of "choose not to prosecute" rape accusations are caught betweendidn't have enough evidence, andoutright false,did not fit the legal definition. Its even harder to prove outright fraud (Which is all that gets counted as false) than it is to prove rape between a formerly consenting couple.

khalid_sl said:

Lithose, please stop responding until she proposes her solution. The last 3 fucking times she brought this up, all she has done is accuse everyone else of being rape apologists and not actually had a position herself.

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It's emotion, the entire concept is logically indefensible. Tis a fool's errand milord!

khalid_sl said:

Lithose, please stop responding until she proposes her solution. The last 3 fucking times she brought this up, all she has done is accuse everyone else of being rape apologists and not actually had a position herself.

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I know, I was hoping she'd at least be able to see how it has become a moral panic which is hurtingrealvictims. I actually think she knows it but she just doesn't want to openly discuss it because she thinks it will validate our "irrational" fears of not wanting to give up due process (Because, obviously, why would we want that when we could get rapists! Just like why wouldn't we testify in front of the Unamerican Activities if it could help get Communist spies?!? EH? EH!?). It is absurd. The fact that ANYONE was not just a little curious about that Virginia story seems absurd to me...a violent gang rape requiring a hospital visit, perpetrated The Accused style, with doctors and school staff told about it? And nothing? Nothing.

It speaks of such a deep hysteria that I'm not sure how anyone could sit there and believe it's not part of a panic. Believing NO school official, or doctor, or friend did anything after such a vicious assault which WAS reported? Requires a complete detachment from reality. It requires a perception that is so fueled by paranoia that it's scarcely believable. Anyone who thinks this hyseria is eventually going to help women? And not actually just incur a violent push back which hurts women? Is just foolish.

Trollface_sl said:

I can honestly say that people who follow redpill down to earth will never find happiness and will be bitter forever.

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I'm glad you've realized this.

It doesn't work for asian dudes anyway. Redpill is a white man's kind of insanity.