California trying GPS-tracking mileage tax for 2016

Iannis_sl said:

Here's the problem. If it was only an odometer reading they could roll that into yearly state inspections, and they could do it cheaper and more effeciently than whatever this program is. They could revisit a number of current taxes and revise them to help meet their budget shortfalls.

It's an over-reach. It is an affront to the citizenry. It's a subsidy to whoever they're thinking about buying the monitors from, and perhaps it's a local economy initiative making all of those mechanics install them. What it is not is a good public policy. It's not even a good idea.

This is granting government a new power. It's obvious why they don't want to raise the per gallon tax. That -is- regressive. But this... this is not even sensible.

Edit: As far as replacing the state gas tax -- that would be a first. I don't know how much more bald faced a lie can be. Maybe that's what they're proposing. I flat out don't believe them. Even if they made history and repealed a tax while they're facing significant fiscal difficulties, the one that they aim to replace it with is stillworse.

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Why is this so bad compared to the way it is now? I have my personal reason on why I stronly dislike this idea, but in general, why would anyone object to this? Someone was ourtraged about being tracked from their car, but it's already done even more intimately by anyone with a smart phone, right? And someone else compared it to a movement tax, which we already have - as the current gas tax. I guess I'm a little surprised at the faux outrage over the DMV/State knowing where you've been and charging a fee on driving there when it's already like that.

Again, I dislike the idea and I also believe it's an affront to freedoms as an American. I think they could just raise the gas tax, which would make a lot more sense.

fifey_sl said:

Just wait till the GPS gets implemented then they decide to ticket people for speeding through it, we see here you were going 45 in a 30, here's the fine.

I'm kind of all for it though, maybe people will finally quit living in suburbs and driving their cars unnecessarily. Will help out on our obesity epidemic too so my health care can be affordable.

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This occured to me as well. Living in Illinois who is just right behind or even with CA in terms of financial crisis as a state, I see this totally happening. You do drive on state/federally owned roads and highways after all.

mkopec_sl said:

This might sound like a stupid question, but where is all this tax money going to? I mean the middle class, dude like me is already getting taxed and re-taxed for basically 50% of my salary, right? But yet the schools are broke, the infrastructure is ancient and crumbling, so again where the fuck is it all going? Not just federal tax dollars, but the state and local ones I pay as well?

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It's called Proposition 13, at least in California's case. Get rid of that POS law and the tax burden will be fairer and the state will generate more income. Also the gas tax hasn't been raised since the early 90's, but everything else costs more, hence less revenue to cover our decaying roads.

Cad_sl said:

Wait till they implement automatic speeding tickets based on the GPS readings as well.

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Illinois already has speed cameras on parts of their interstates between St. Louis and Chicago.

Arative_sl said:

Illinois already has speed cameras on parts of their interstates between St. Louis and Chicago.

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Yea but they aren't tracking every single car in the state at all times. Those are single point on target areas, not a mobile tracking system.

This should work out awesome , collapsing dollar means 12 dollars a gallon gas by the end of 2016 . Maybe they should plan ahead , slap a 500 import tax on tire sandals this week

lendarios_sl said:

No. They cant, certain right are inalienable. Privacy, freedom of speech, and others in the bill of rights are some of them.
Imagine how easy it would have been to take people's guns. Want to drive or to own a gun? Unless you have committed a felony, no one can take away your rights.

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Please show me the "inalienable right to drive an automobile" provision in the Constitution or its amendments. I'm dying to see it.

Iannis_sl said:

Here's the problem. If it was only an odometer reading they could roll that into yearly state inspections, and they could do it cheaper and more effeciently than whatever this program is. They could revisit a number of current taxes and revise them to help meet their budget shortfalls.

It's an over-reach. It is an affront to the citizenry. It's a subsidy to whoever they're thinking about buying the monitors from, and perhaps it's a local economy initiative making all of those mechanics install them. What it is not is a good public policy. It's not even a good idea.

This is granting government a new power. It's obvious why they don't want to raise the per gallon tax. That -is- regressive. But this... this is not even sensible.

Edit: As far as replacing the state gas tax -- that would be a first. I don't know how much more bald faced a lie can be. Maybe that's what they're proposing. I flat out don't believe them. Even if they made history and repealed a tax while they're facing significant fiscal difficulties, the one that they aim to replace it with is stillworse.

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I agree 100% on why not skip the monitors and just roll it into inspections (although it would likely have to bump them up yearly most places - I know MD does theirs two years or more - they randomly pull people, and you're exempt if you've been within 2 years) - but the system itself is not necessarily a bad idea. [And note, I did say the same about just rolling it into inspections being more sensible to me...]

Remember, with how electrics and hybrids are picking up steam and the price of gas encouraging more and more people to go hybrid/electric/high mpg - the gas tax is going to start losing ground quickly while the wear and tear on the roads continues to be similar to today.

Don't get me wrong - I don't prefer this angle (although as stated, as a light >200 mile a month driver, I will personally benefit from such if it comes to my state) - but it's obvious the revenue from the gas tax is fading.

I don't like the plan personally, but how else to you replace that dwindling revenue stream while trying to keep it balanced where people generally pay appropriately to their usage? Only option I can think of otherwise is like Florida with toll booths every damn mile or so - but that's annoying as hell and required a ton of infrastructure that I'm sure cost a ton. Remember it's a real problem that's on the horizon, so it's something that will have to happen - perhaps still manageable while gas is a common car fuel - but the day we switch off gas onto electric (or other options - fusion cells I think was another I've seen discussed - expensive cells but last something around 200k miles or something ridiculous like that in the theorycrafting) we'll have tons of people basically skipping their portion of funding road repair, etc which gets bad. Most places have shitty roads now with the existing funding, less funding won't make it better.

lendarios_sl said:

There is no right to drive an automobile. I have never asserted this.

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You have, whether intentionally or inadvertently due to your poor writing skills.See:

lendarios_sl said:

No. They cant, certain right are inalienable. ... Want to drive or to own a gun? Unless you have committed a felony, no one can take away your rights.

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As to your latest travesty of a post:

lendarios_sl said:

However there is a right to privacy, protection against illegal searches, free speech and gun ownership. Those 4 plus others are inalienable, meaning you can not sign/give them away or be forced to or coerced to be given away. Regarding of what you are receiving in exchange. Imagine they are not yours to begin with, so you cant give them away willfully. So now come the next part, any contract that involves you giving away those right is null, as it can not supersede the constitution.

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This is blatantly incorrect. Any time an individual consents to a police search they have given away their privacy right under the Fourth Amendment. In fact, there are so many exceptions to the Fourth Amendment nowadays that the right to privacy can hardly be called "inalienable." Gun ownership is, also, far from "inalienable." You can relinquish your Second Amendment right in a plea deal or as part of an agreement to be released on bond while facing a criminal charge. Defendants every day plead guilty to felonies and lose the right to bear arms. Finally, people lose their right to bear arms when they move to states such as New York or California, whose gun regulation regimes are de facto bans upon the private ownership of firearms.

You should have been a lawyer, that way I'd have another easy opponent in court.

Another strike I just realized against the GPS method versus just simple odometer - towed/shipped cars. When I go to Florida for a month, I actually use the autotrain to ship my car down to Florida rather than driving it or renting a car - under a GPS vs Odometer based system I'd actually be paying for mileage when the car wasn't even on the road....

Vaclav_sl said:

Another strike I just realized against the GPS method versus just simple odometer - towed/shipped cars. When I go to Florida for a month, I actually use the autotrain to ship my car down to Florida rather than driving it or renting a car - under a GPS vs Odometer based system I'd actually be paying for mileage when the car wasn't even on the road....

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While engine = on?