Saying that you use another premade guild doesn't invalidate my argument.
Best is a matter of perspective. EVE definitely has niche appeal.
Camelot Unchained MMO
- Thread starter AlekseiFL_sl
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Best is a matter of perspective. EVE definitely has niche appeal.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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After GW2->ESO->AA I'm really enjoying Black Desert Online's FFA PvP. Not only is it super annoying to have a tremendous number of assholes on your side, but you also don't get to really play with other factions. I also like that there is a fairly large player-base on one server in BDO. AA had a much smaller population and you saw the same exact people for months.
Factional PvP helps casuals who aren't able to join a strong guild and can't really fend for themselves, but it has a lot of disadvantages to the people who are going to play consistently enough to create a server culture for your game.
ESO had a lot of problems but the #1 problem was the player anonymization it had that was done for casual friendly reasons. To this day I don't see how you could create a real culture in that game.
Factional PvP helps casuals who aren't able to join a strong guild and can't really fend for themselves, but it has a lot of disadvantages to the people who are going to play consistently enough to create a server culture for your game.
ESO had a lot of problems but the #1 problem was the player anonymization it had that was done for casual friendly reasons. To this day I don't see how you could create a real culture in that game.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Go read SC thread. He started there a few days ago, just another cult kool-aid drinking person, didn't want blackwulf and variise gobbling up all the crazy points. Guess he decided to branch out of the SC thread for this one, so he didn't look like to big a shill.
Grim1
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BDO's pvp is pretty cool, too bad it is hidden behind a fuckwall of pve grinding.
Another one that likes to repeat himself like an idiot even after I bashed the game to make a point. It is interesting the level of cross thread angst I have engendered with this "I'm smarter than you" pedantic dick routine. It's supposed to bait people into real argument; instead around here I get a bunch of backbiting cowardice. You just going to follow me around, C?
You still are a bunch of fools that do little better than parrot the same self assuming arguments and worship game publishers.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Most of this crowd has been around the block enough times to see through that crap. But everyone can be fooled occasionally (apologies to Lincoln for the steal).
Read the SC thread then. I meant 'you' as in Cinge and the anti crowd there not people at large.
The main argument is that without game publishers a development team cannot be financially responsible and a whole lot of repeating of "too many features" which does have a champion in the blogosphere. The statement wasn't a mindless flail.
Anyone can join a goon squad or reddit guild. Every MMO has literally hundreds or thousands of guilds recruiting. It's not impossible to get involved.
And yet some people don't want to do that. Fact is that when given a choice most people end up avoiding FFA PVP if they can. That has been obvious since people have had the option to go to Trammel. It's why governments exist in real life. With RVR the faction leader is an NPC not somebody whose preferences you have to deal with either.
Grim1
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In mmo's that is true, because most mmo's reward players with no lives and minimize skill. FFA FPS games are extremely popular but everyone for the most part is on a level playing field and skill has more importance.
And don't bomb me with "skillz matters in mmo's" responses. Of course it does. But gear is just as important in most mmo ffa pvp games and that is why most casual players avoid it like the plague. They can't compete with the no-lifers.
uniqueuser
Vyemm Raider
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No one is worshiping publishers; you, however, reviled them in every post as the reason we can't have nice things.
Stick a cracker in your squawkbox, Polly.
Why are people who don't want to do that buying and playing a game designed around ffa pvp?
Fuck sake man, it's 2016. There are games for everyone out there.
UO was one of the first major IP MMOs out. It released before EQ and there were no other options. It also existed before the FFA vs RVR camps had been set up. Trammel came years down the line and when it came people left the FFA PVP areas. I use it to illustrate a point.
MMO's are expensive and publishers are conservative.
There is no cult either but it doesn't stop you from the characterization. a_skeleton_03 was saying that publishers were necessary for financial responsibility and peddling the notion that SC not having one was why it was going to fail. He and others were piling on variise using the argument. It is what it is.
Seeing that the last big budget FFA MMO that I can recall was AoC and it tanked after shareholders panicked at a quarterly meeting forcing the game to release dramatically unfinished then they were a reason you couldn't have that nice thing. Too bad too cause those guys typically make good games and what they had completed was top notch IMO. I had figured out how to get through their geometry and could see all of the stuff in Set and elsewhere that never got finished.
Publishers are not necessary with the advent of crowdfunding and I fully support the movement. Following the 2008 crash I'm not a big fan of financier types in general I admit but I feel I have very valid reasons for that. I'm not going to say that anything they do is destined to fail but MMOs are probably the most expensive games to make and they are a bottomline industry. It does lead to development issues.
Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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I think DAOC stands as fairly definitive proof that you can have faction PVP and still have a great server culture/community. There was tons of cross faction interaction, inter-guild rivalries, famous players, etc. in that game. They also had a massive scene for PVP videos (usually set to cheesy nu-metal), which was a ton of fun back before streaming became a thing.
Granted no game has really managed to emulate it, but it definitely existed once upon a time, so it's possible, although maybe not in the current MMO market.
I'm not sure why this debate is happening anyway - it's apples and oranges. Might as well argue over whether PvP or PvE are better.
Granted no game has really managed to emulate it, but it definitely existed once upon a time, so it's possible, although maybe not in the current MMO market.
I'm not sure why this debate is happening anyway - it's apples and oranges. Might as well argue over whether PvP or PvE are better.
I watched a bit of modern daoc pvp on twitch earlier. Decent sized battle on a hill I didn't recognize. Could hear the voice chat and it has been awhile since I've heard such intensity for a game. A good mix of panic, anger, target calling, yelling for those totem things they crap out etc. Was a lot going on.
I never played much once the artifacts and master stuff hit. I think it got even more complicated after that with champion levels or something?
I never played much once the artifacts and master stuff hit. I think it got even more complicated after that with champion levels or something?
Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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It's been a few years since I played, but from what I remember champ levels aren't a huge deal. They wanted to allow people to work to gain access to abilities from other classes, but after the mess of arti's/ML's they were afraid of creating another nightmare grind or a balance fuckfest, so they weakened the system to the point where it's pretty irrelevant. Iirc you can get the champ levels just through regular RVR (ML's are the same) and all they really provide of any use is a small 10% resist buff you can cast. Don't remember if they provide an inherent stat boost, but if they do it isn't a big one.
So yeah they're not a huge deal. When I last played back in 2011/12 you could get 50 + templated in a day or two & ML10 with a few sessions of decent RVR. And if you couldn't be fucked with that you could just create a BG character and rock out in Molvik/Cathal Valley.
I've had people try to get me me to come back lately and I'm on the edge of doing it. Whatever it's flaws, no game has had PVP half as fun as DAOC's.
So yeah they're not a huge deal. When I last played back in 2011/12 you could get 50 + templated in a day or two & ML10 with a few sessions of decent RVR. And if you couldn't be fucked with that you could just create a BG character and rock out in Molvik/Cathal Valley.
I've had people try to get me me to come back lately and I'm on the edge of doing it. Whatever it's flaws, no game has had PVP half as fun as DAOC's.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Those people are self-defeating. A factional PvP system gives them a slight-taste of a guild that is duller than being in an anonymous zerg guild. It acts as a crutch that prevents them from being forced to join a community, but doesn't give them the real MMO experience of being part of one. Sure some people just want to play a game, see what it is, experience the content and move on, but these types of people don't make a successful game because they're out in two months.
Brikker
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