Vitality
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Crowfall
- Thread starter Kharza-kzad_sl
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Vitality
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Crafting Info Braindump from Thomas B
by ThomasB 2 hours ago in forum Crafting & Economy in Is It Too Early To Start Asking About Crafting Math? Questions On Alloys
Random Noob says:
It's early, so forgive me if I'm not interpreting this correctly (after reading it like 6 times
Are we saying that there won't be the concept of material quality? If that's the case, I hope the backers still have a chance to convince you to put it back on the table... including material types!
----- Thomas B Responds ------
It's not off the table yet, it is just difficult to play through a scenario in your head where someone harvesting in the Campaigns has 10 different stacks of different copper with a few in each, and 8 different kinds of Tin, same thing with plants and hides. While harvesting Disciplines do grant more space it is not that much more. So we need to figure out a way to make it work under the umbrella in which a limited inventory size is a cornerstone.
I'll just braindump out some considerations and we can talk about them.
Assume limited inventory with multiple qualities and types:
Player has many small stacks for each quality in their inventory.
This necessitates destroying low quality materials while harvesting to maintain space for better materials. (bad!)
Might necessitate a pack animal to have more harvesting space. (good!)
This means more risk due to potential loss of animal. (good!)
Encourages friends to harvest with you to carry extra. (good!)
High social interaction, makes it undesirable to solo harvest. (good for some, bad for others)
Killing harvesting players is less rewarding as you must now sort through an inventory full of varying quality stuff. (bad!)
Death is less punishing for harvesters as not much of their stuff is taken. (bad!)
Player has "ball of copper" method with various qualities and types merged into one stack.
Do materials auto merge into this stack as I harvest or do I need to manually do it?
If auto I now need a method to tell ahead of time what quality a resource is before I harvest or I risk the current quality of my ball.
If manual I just created another inventory management task.
Do materials average their quality out when merged?
If so doesn't this mean I'm throwing away all materials below a threshold value?
Do I put these lower qualities into their own ball so now I have several balls of merged copper?
Does the server track the qualities of each piece merged into the ball for later removal?
How the heck does the server store this?
Maybe behind the scenes the ball is a container with slots.
How do I break apart the stack and get to the resource I want from this ball?
When the stack breaks do it break into an item for each quality? (back to 10 individual stacks)
Walking through thought chains like this is a great exercise and I encourage everyone to join me. Play through the process in your head and see what pops out.
Going back to the OP: some of the math is obvious from the chart.
All 2-component alloys have a 25% combination bonus to final strength, with one exception.
Pure copper recipe : (.2 + .2) * 1.25 = .5
Bronze recipe : (.2 + .6) * 1.25 = 1.0
Sterling: (.2 + .8) * 1.25 = 1.25
Plated Tin: (.4 + .6) * 1.25 = 1.25
Rose Gold: (.2+ 1.0) * 1.04 ~= 1.25
I suspect the rose gold recipe is an example of sloppy manual work in preparing the graphic, rather than an actual break in the pattern. If that's the actual result, perhaps 2-component alloys have a hard cap at 1.25 strength.
I went back and looked at the spreadsheet and Rose Gold is supposed to be 1.5 str and 5.0 life per Hit. Looks like a error in the graphic.
Random Noob says:
It's early, so forgive me if I'm not interpreting this correctly (after reading it like 6 times
Are we saying that there won't be the concept of material quality? If that's the case, I hope the backers still have a chance to convince you to put it back on the table... including material types!
----- Thomas B Responds ------
It's not off the table yet, it is just difficult to play through a scenario in your head where someone harvesting in the Campaigns has 10 different stacks of different copper with a few in each, and 8 different kinds of Tin, same thing with plants and hides. While harvesting Disciplines do grant more space it is not that much more. So we need to figure out a way to make it work under the umbrella in which a limited inventory size is a cornerstone.
I'll just braindump out some considerations and we can talk about them.
Assume limited inventory with multiple qualities and types:
Player has many small stacks for each quality in their inventory.
This necessitates destroying low quality materials while harvesting to maintain space for better materials. (bad!)
Might necessitate a pack animal to have more harvesting space. (good!)
This means more risk due to potential loss of animal. (good!)
Encourages friends to harvest with you to carry extra. (good!)
High social interaction, makes it undesirable to solo harvest. (good for some, bad for others)
Killing harvesting players is less rewarding as you must now sort through an inventory full of varying quality stuff. (bad!)
Death is less punishing for harvesters as not much of their stuff is taken. (bad!)
Player has "ball of copper" method with various qualities and types merged into one stack.
Do materials auto merge into this stack as I harvest or do I need to manually do it?
If auto I now need a method to tell ahead of time what quality a resource is before I harvest or I risk the current quality of my ball.
If manual I just created another inventory management task.
Do materials average their quality out when merged?
If so doesn't this mean I'm throwing away all materials below a threshold value?
Do I put these lower qualities into their own ball so now I have several balls of merged copper?
Does the server track the qualities of each piece merged into the ball for later removal?
How the heck does the server store this?
Maybe behind the scenes the ball is a container with slots.
How do I break apart the stack and get to the resource I want from this ball?
When the stack breaks do it break into an item for each quality? (back to 10 individual stacks)
Walking through thought chains like this is a great exercise and I encourage everyone to join me. Play through the process in your head and see what pops out.
Going back to the OP: some of the math is obvious from the chart.
All 2-component alloys have a 25% combination bonus to final strength, with one exception.
Pure copper recipe : (.2 + .2) * 1.25 = .5
Bronze recipe : (.2 + .6) * 1.25 = 1.0
Sterling: (.2 + .8) * 1.25 = 1.25
Plated Tin: (.4 + .6) * 1.25 = 1.25
Rose Gold: (.2+ 1.0) * 1.04 ~= 1.25
I suspect the rose gold recipe is an example of sloppy manual work in preparing the graphic, rather than an actual break in the pattern. If that's the actual result, perhaps 2-component alloys have a hard cap at 1.25 strength.
I went back and looked at the spreadsheet and Rose Gold is supposed to be 1.5 str and 5.0 life per Hit. Looks like a error in the graphic.
Vitality
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Todd on relic/artifact blessing power:
I'm not sure that it will really be necessary; we aren't designing these to give anyone a significant starting advantage. They are nice-to-haves, not must-haves.
That said, if enough players are interested in a "no blessings" switch for some Campaigns (especially those closer to the Hunger), I'd be game to do that. I can see the desire to start a Campaign as clean as possible, so I'm not necessarily opposed to having some Campaigns that turn them off.
What do you guys think? Worth adding?
Todd
ACE
p.s. The fact that each character can only have 3 blessings active also means that it doesn't matter how many you acquire/collect, you still enter the game with exactly as many blessings as everyone else. To use the terminology of this thread, that effectively makes the system horizontal, not vertical... because more relics means more options, not more power.
----
Also KS hits 13k backers last night, free VIP month for all tiers.
I'm not sure that it will really be necessary; we aren't designing these to give anyone a significant starting advantage. They are nice-to-haves, not must-haves.
That said, if enough players are interested in a "no blessings" switch for some Campaigns (especially those closer to the Hunger), I'd be game to do that. I can see the desire to start a Campaign as clean as possible, so I'm not necessarily opposed to having some Campaigns that turn them off.
What do you guys think? Worth adding?
Todd
ACE
p.s. The fact that each character can only have 3 blessings active also means that it doesn't matter how many you acquire/collect, you still enter the game with exactly as many blessings as everyone else. To use the terminology of this thread, that effectively makes the system horizontal, not vertical... because more relics means more options, not more power.
----
Also KS hits 13k backers last night, free VIP month for all tiers.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Well problem with that is you would have to bring back the insane amount of inventory space and weird nesting behaviors SWG had. For a long time in SWG people were using the backpacks they could not dare to remove because they had bags within bags within bags that worked if you carried them to give you hundreds of inventory space but if you ever removed it you could not put it back on. Then you had housing which was easily available which also could be used with back pack nesting for stupidly high levels of inventory space.
Given the way they are talking about inventory in crowfall I simply don't see this as a viable option.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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They should just borrow ArcheAge's implementation:
1. Raw materials can't be put in player's inventories, they must be carried in large packs that are external to the player.
2. The packs can either be carried singular by a player, causing them to run slower, or carried on various carts/packs/carevans.
3. Players can kill the players and steal the packs or even steal the carts/mounts if they are cheap enough.
4. The packs stay in the game space until a crafter turns them into usable item or they are used to construct a building.
You could also soften it a bit by saying, "Ok a pack carries 50lbs of iron, but players can hold up to 10lbs of trading resource combined.". I think this would turn it into inventory management 1000 where players would hop off their mount, hit a random iron node somewhere, then have to choose which crafting resource to drop so they aren't stuck with an iron pack.
1. Raw materials can't be put in player's inventories, they must be carried in large packs that are external to the player.
2. The packs can either be carried singular by a player, causing them to run slower, or carried on various carts/packs/carevans.
3. Players can kill the players and steal the packs or even steal the carts/mounts if they are cheap enough.
4. The packs stay in the game space until a crafter turns them into usable item or they are used to construct a building.
You could also soften it a bit by saying, "Ok a pack carries 50lbs of iron, but players can hold up to 10lbs of trading resource combined.". I think this would turn it into inventory management 1000 where players would hop off their mount, hit a random iron node somewhere, then have to choose which crafting resource to drop so they aren't stuck with an iron pack.
Vitality
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I'd imagine given the grid nature of player inventories that the raw resources take up an insane amount of grid space. Which is why caravans are getting put in. Not sure if they're going to have them open world placeable. There hasn't been much word on world placement other than the wall sections in a video.
Tuco
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Last few days usually. I kind of feel like that 'push' is sort of stunted the more people trust that they'll continue funding options post-kickstarter, which is 100% guaranteed in this case.
There's no reason for people to fund it because:
1. It's funded.
2. They aren't missing an opportunity by not funding it now because the same stuff will be available later.
In some KS people think, "Yeah I'd like to get early access or be involved in that, I'll get around to it..." then they see their window to do that is evaporating and they think the group doing the KS will go dark and perform immediately after. That's not happening here.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I was under the impression that they already hit their goal and are throwing out various promises in the hopes of getting more money? Just had an E-Mail that sets up VR as a stretch goal, which seems kinda pointless for a game that is (afaik) 3rd person or shoulder view, and emphasizes performance over graphic detail through their style choice.
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Not completely true.
I'm assuming this will apply towards other visual Kickstarter rewards, too.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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That's true, but I don't think people are compelled by that. In my opinion the value/cost ratio typically gets better the longer you wait. I think in some cases they offer something very valuable in a limited just to set an example, but other than that there's no reason to buy in now.
I also feel like nobody knows enough about the EK to value the EK rewards. And everything they mention about the EK boils down to, "fuck off about the EK already, the game is in the campaigns, but please buy our EK rewards because that's all we can monetize."
I also feel like nobody knows enough about the EK to value the EK rewards. And everything they mention about the EK boils down to, "fuck off about the EK already, the game is in the campaigns, but please buy our EK rewards because that's all we can monetize."