Crowfall

pyksel_sl said:

Loving the look of the EK and it's intended use of being a place that offers downtime between campaigns but I also agree with Vitality and Teekey to some extent in that this doesn't quite "fit" the model they're touting. Especially when it comes to risk vs. reward. I guess to play devil's advocate one might ask the question, if you're that hungry for PvP, why not just jump into a campaign? Couldn't they still design campaigns around the idea of EK siege while maintaining the individual housing aspect of it?

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The big issue in my mind is...what is the reward for winning Campaigns if you don't care about the Eternal Kingdom at all?

There just seems to be a disconnect in the design. Either you care about the EK to get the most out of campaigns...or you just play campaigns for the sake of playing campaigns?

Teekey_sl said:

The big issue in my mind is...what is the reward for winning Campaigns if you don't care about the Eternal Kingdom at all?

There just seems to be a disconnect in the design. Either you care about the EK to get the most out of campaigns...or you just play campaigns for the sake of playing campaigns?

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Relics/Artifacts with blessings based on campaign wins. But that's a slippery slope if they give too much power. Which we don't really know yet.

For a specific subset of players, we'll call them Hardcore, Just simply being in the Dregs is enough of a reward.

It's the same as doing a Path of Exile Hardcore league knowing the items you get ultimately get dumped in a trashbin in the less hardcore permanent game.

Leaderboards (Competition), reputation (Namesake) and community (Meeting new friends/enemies) are everything in the Dregs (Hardcore world)

EK's don't have any of that. I'd be happy if they had atleast one of those 3.

I almost feel like the campaign variance is also creating a somewhat muddled vision.

If they allowed imports to ALL campaigns, then everyone would have to care about the Eternal Kingdom if they wanted to maximize their Campaign potential.

The Relic/Artifact system will probably guarantee that everyone cares about the Eternal Kingdom, if only to store their trophies and min/max their buffs. BUT...they've also talked about campaigns that don't have Relic/Artifact buffs...

It feels like they're trying to please everyone to some extent.

The campaign kingdoms get torn down. If you only visit a dregs campaign kingdom you only have access to what has been built during that campaign. In spring that will not be much at all. I get that you want that part of the game, it is cool, go play to crush, bring nothing back but the stories and scars.

I hope you can get that others will want to build some things, that will last. (In a virt world I know, but the mindset is there) Please understand that some folks will want more than the eternal struggle alone.

Also I hope they could easily take the EK layouts from PRX and LotD and 3-4 other big guilds and overlay them into a month long summer start campaign. Call it a grand tourny with a large reward and posted bragging rights online so to speak and promote the shit out of it.

Start promoting 1 month in that the winners of the first dregs 6 month campaigns get a week to build their guild Eternal Kingdom, then the gran tourny world starts. Have an intense 1 month grand tourny that has a shortened build cycle due to the summer start and the shortened campaign season. Then can have another 6 months dregs world to get ready for the next tourny.

Promote the hell out of that and you could easily get pro teams out of it. Or at least a following think of the backstabbing, the politics, and the battles. All while winter was coming. Some people would be new from the first tourny and all sorts of stories and drama would be wrung from the excitement.

Well at least that is one idea for just a small subset of the population. Right now the sky is the limit, because real world has not reared it's ugly head. Foolish I know, but god damn it could be exciting.

Putting various guilds EKs on the world stage in a tournament like this constitutes as one of the 3 hardcore gameplay ideals I had mentioned as a requirement in the previous post.

I'd get behind EK's if they did it but that's still just vapor at this point.

It would also be a good reason for me to contribute to my own EK as I'd then build a rep with say Tuco's guild or another group of bros on this Board to act as a supplier or just be able to cheer them on etc. Might even rent PRX space to setup shop.

God knows PRX is gonna need some of my sweet Dregs loot if they're focused on The Shadow worlds.

EK's without this function are not a good idea.

Tuco_sl said:

Unless they force us into faction pvp as some kind of contrived tourney i can all but guarantee you we will be in dregs just because we want ffa pvp. I dont want to speak for anyone else but i can bet that other pvp guilds agree with that. We dont like forced alliances.

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What if they make the guild only artifacts only winnable in the guild vs guild campaign?

We all know how this is going to go. After launch (assuming they have more than Dregs) they will take a wide look at which rulesets are attracting the most players. I can see a scenario where they put more enticing rewards in lesser populated campaigns in order to bolster activity.

Vitality_sl said:

Boy oh boy I just really don't care about Eternal Kingdoms at all man. I hope I'm not the only one who found that feature list uninteresting.

I gave them a bunch of money to get the PVP right not make DayZ servers.

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There are a lot of people out there than love crafting that will fall in love with that.

Vitality_sl said:

What if they make the guild only artifacts only winnable in the guild vs guild campaign?

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Kingdoms and Fealty are completely separate from Guilds though. I still can't fully wrap my head around how it's all going to work.

Can I just join as many Kingdoms as possible to get as many Relic buffs as possible? (or have more options of which ones I use?)

Draegan_sl said:

There are a lot of people out there than love crafting that will fall in love with that.

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Of course Crafters will love a Trammel zone to tinker in.

Everyone is going to have to partake in the Eternal Kingdom though because you have no recourse except try and be on even footing.

Teekey_sl said:

Kingdoms and Fealty are completely separate from Guilds though. I still can't fully wrap my head around how it's all going to work.

Can I just join as many Kingdoms as possible to get as many Relic buffs as possible? (or have more options of which ones I use?)



Of course Crafters will love a Trammel zone to tinker in.

Everyone is going to have to partake in the Eternal Kingdom though because you have no recourse except try and be on even footing.

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Trammel was shitty then and will be shitty now unless it gets injected with risk, reputation or competition.

Well you're capped at the number of blessings you can have on you regardless if they're guild available or not. We don't have enough info on Artifacts VS Relics. I'd imagine the Artifacts are more potent than Relics or offer something more substantial (Like damage reduction or whatever). That's just speculation though.

I can't imagine them making personal relics more potent or on par with Guild Artifacts. There would be no point in getting the guild artifacts if that was the case.

Fealty and Tennant status aren't the same thing as wearing a guild tag? I'm not sure how that works either it seems pretty vague.

Vitality_sl said:

Yeah but when they tout that they are about risk and reward and then come out with a Fence riding EK model like this one what does that tell you?

Are the current form of EK's a market share grab? It's hard for me to tell. Private EK's aren't good in my head.

Very confusing stance on player housing... It feels like trammel.

I've already considered my $150 a loss because I believe in the PVP... but shit man this line of thought makes me want to pull my pledge.

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I've been saying this forever. People are putting way too much emphasis on the EK and thinking it's either A) Taking a giant chunk of design space. B) Think it's some kind of core gameplay element. C) Trying to make it something it's not.

It's smart game design. This game is attracting two types of people (and some people are both types): Crafters/economists and PVPers. The PVPrs will be in Campaigns almost 95% of the time, and the only time they aren't in one is organizing the next campaign. You shouldn't even worry about the EK and I'm not sure why you are either.

The other type of player is the crafter and they will want to set up shop somewhere and just do simple stuff all day long. These are the types that sit in 1.0 space all day in EVE.

I don't know why you're confused or why you think the game is crap now or why the EK even needs elements on Risk vs. Reward. Every PVP game that wants to heavily rely on economics needs safe places to operate in for non hardcore players. I don't see poeple saying you should be able to PK people sitting in space stations in high sec space in EVE.

Same thing.

I sat in 1.0 space in Eve for 2 years. However I had a massive impact on 0.0 space by being a supplier to the most destitute locations. At the "risk" of loss, not a guaranteed loss (import percentage reducing supplies).

I'd be super fuckin hyped for EK's if import rules were clearer or didn't exist at all and instead were requried to import via Caravans from your EK into the Dregs homeworld where you run the risk of bandits camping the gate to the Dregs.

The biggest difference between Eve 1.0 and Nulsec and CF EK/Dregs is that CF FORCES automatic loss.

Give me my stealth guinea battle pig so I can smuggle in goods.

Teekey_sl said:

The big issue in my mind is...what is the reward for winning Campaigns if you don't care about the Eternal Kingdom at all?

There just seems to be a disconnect in the design. Either you care about the EK to get the most out of campaigns...or you just play campaigns for the sake of playing campaigns?

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If all you do is play terminator rules, then you don't give a shit. However winning a campaign, bringing back shit to the EK and making stuff for the next import. That's why you want the EK around.

Vitality_sl said:

I sat in 1.0 space in Eve for 2 years. However I had a massive impact on 0.0 space by being a supplier to the most destitute locations. At the "risk" of loss, not a guaranteed loss (import percentage reducing supplies).

I'd be super fuckin hyped for EK's if import rules were clearer or didn't exist at all and instead were requried to import via Caravans from your EK into the Dregs homeworld where you run the risk of bandits camping the gate to the Dregs.

The biggest difference between Eve 1.0 and Nulsec and CF EK/Dregs is that CF FORCES automatic loss.

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I think that's a big part of their design decisions they have to make. If you you have random loss of your mats? It's going to be very stupid. They should put in some kind of percentage tariffs. Like if you have 1000 stack of copper, then the dregs has a 50% tariff on imports. I dunno, it should be something you can plan against.

Draegan_sl said:

I think that's a big part of their design decisions they have to make. If you you have random loss of your mats? It's going to be very stupid. They should put in some kind of percentage tariffs. Like if you have 1000 stack of copper, then the dregs has a 50% tariff on imports. I dunno, it should be something you can plan against.

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They are currently commited to random loss my man. The details are still unclear on this however. I'd rather the risk of loss be player enforced and not just some stupid tax just because.

Here's my thoughts on the subject:

Make gates to the EK realm player craftable or one per Campaign in extremely accessible central location.

- Set base import/export reduction percentages on materials only
- Structures cannot be built in a certain radius around the gate
- The gate only opens at certain times of the day (Primetime)
- The gate spawns rediculously hardf Hunger mobs when it opens and periodically while it remains opened
- Set a resource cap per day (or week) to be imported/exported from the campaign before the portal closes
- Possibly set material type restrictions based on season of the server etc.

Vitality_sl said:

They are currently commited to random loss my man. I'd rather the risk of loss be player enforced and not just some stupid tax just because.

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Who cares what they are currently committed to? Shit can change at any time. You read their dev posts all day, you don't get the same sense that I do that they are willing to change almost any aspect of the game?

Draegan_sl said:

Who cares what they are currently committed to? Shit can change at any time. You read their dev posts all day, you don't get the same sense that I do that they are willing to change almost any aspect of the game?

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I gave them money because I got that sense. I made edits to the post you quoted. My point is I'd like the risk of loss to be player driven and not arbitrary. It would give immense value to the EK if that were the case.

The simple fact that anyone can take your shit in the Dregs is more than enough in my opinion.

Random is retarded and shouldn't of ever been a consideration. It's going to be a show topic at some point. Maybe we can shed some light on that problem.

Draegan_sl said:

I've been saying this forever. People are putting way too much emphasis on the EK and thinking it's either A) Taking a giant chunk of design space. B) Think it's some kind of core gameplay element. C) Trying to make it something it's not.

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I guess my issue is that I want a reason to care for them.