Crowfall

Valor_sl · Mar 20, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
They are currently commited to random loss my man. The details are still unclear on this however. I'd rather the risk of loss be player enforced and not just some stupid tax just because.

Here's my thoughts on the subject:

Make gates to the EK realm player craftable or one per Campaign in extremely accessible central location.

- Set base import/export reduction percentages on materials only
- Structures cannot be built in a certain radius around the gate
- The gate only opens at certain times of the day (Primetime)
- The gate spawns rediculously hardf Hunger mobs when it opens and periodically while it remains opened
- Set a resource cap per day (or week) to be imported/exported from the campaign before the portal closes
- Possibly set material type restrictions based on season of the server etc.

Honestly folks, the past two pages of posts I literally walked into their office and spoke face to face with Todd and Gordon to discuss the importance of EK's. We (LotD) wanted to have meaning to the EK's. We wanted to be able to war EK's. We wanted to have player loss. We wanted to go in and just fck people's shit up. (I've gone a little overboard here on this, but you get my point)

Here is what I was told and what you can expect:

1. EK's are the salad bar at the steakhouse. They are content, but not why you are there. The EK's are going to be player housing. They are going to be player crafting stations. They are going to allow you to adjust rulesets, such as +/- PvP. They may even allow more changes, who knows.

2. EK's are going to be where you house your blessings/relics. This is an important piece that people are not picking up on yet. When you win a campaign, you get rewards on top of just resources. These rewards will scale in quality, but to what degree I don't know. The more campaigns you win, or shit you find, the more flexibility of selection you will have in what blessings you have active. Lateral Progression.

3. EK's are going to also serve as a trophy case. Why is this important? Because at it's root, Crowfall is a tournament game. This game is not like DAOC, or UO, or SB. The "winner" in Crowfall is simply the winner until the next championship tournament.

4. EK's are NOT going to have any form of serious risk involved in their implementation. This is simply what neighborhood you live in when you aren't off in combat in the campaigns.

Now, for a lot of the PvP community, we don't particularly care about player housing ect. We just want to log in and have meaningful PvP. The meaning behind PvP in crowfall will be the tournaments. You can go out and kill x number of people to your hearts content, but if you are seeking something that brings importance and gives your opponents that extra incentive to fight harder and make it that much more precious to win, you will be fighting for a championship.

The export/import rule sets have yet to fleshed out, I'd assume they don't even know yet TBH, and will use the Alpha/Beta to tweak them for balance. But they are there to prevent carebears from dominating the game and forcing the pvp communities to a regulated position within Crowfall. Everyone starts out at relatively the same point and skill, coordination, probably some politics and execution will be what you'll need to succeed in a campaign.

And when people are talking about resources, remember that most of the valuable resources in a campaign are transported via pack animals, which can be attacked and the resources stolen.

ili_sl · Mar 20, 2015

these blessing are regulated by rule set. so even if you have blessings/relics doesn't mean you get to use them.

Valor_sl · Mar 20, 2015

ili_sl said:
these blessing are regulated by rule set. so even if you have blessings/relics doesn't mean you get to use them.

They've said that they'd consider seeing if there was enough interest in that style of ruleset.

Vandyn · Mar 20, 2015

Valor_sl said:
Honestly folks, the past two pages of posts I literally walked into their office and spoke face to face with Todd and Gordon to discuss the importance of EK's. We (LotD) wanted to have meaning to the EK's. We wanted to be able to war EK's. We wanted to have player loss. We wanted to go in and just fck people's shit up. (I've gone a little overboard here on this, but you get my point)

Here is what I was told and what you can expect:

1. EK's are the salad bar at the steakhouse. They are content, but not why you are there. The EK's are going to be player housing. They are going to be player crafting stations. They are going to allow you to adjust rulesets, such as +/- PvP. They may even allow more changes, who knows.

2. EK's are going to be where you house your blessings/relics. This is an important piece that people are not picking up on yet. When you win a campaign, you get rewards on top of just resources. These rewards will scale in quality, but to what degree I don't know. The more campaigns you win, or shit you find, the more flexibility of selection you will have in what blessings you have active. Lateral Progression.

3. EK's are going to also serve as a trophy case. Why is this important? Because at it's root, Crowfall is a tournament game. This game is not like DAOC, or UO, or SB. The "winner" in Crowfall is simply the winner until the next championship tournament.

4. EK's are NOT going to have any form of serious risk involved in their implementation. This is simply what neighborhood you live in when you aren't off in combat in the campaigns.

Now, for a lot of the PvP community, we don't particularly care about player housing ect. We just want to log in and have meaningful PvP. The meaning behind PvP in crowfall will be the tournaments. You can go out and kill x number of people to your hearts content, but if you are seeking something that brings importance and gives your opponents that extra incentive to fight harder and make it that much more precious to win, you will be fighting for a championship.

The export/import rule sets have yet to fleshed out, I'd assume they don't even know yet TBH, and will use the Alpha/Beta to tweak them for balance. But they are there to prevent carebears from dominating the game and forcing the pvp communities to a regulated position within Crowfall. Everyone starts out at relatively the same point and skill, coordination, probably some politics and execution will be what you'll need to succeed in a campaign.

And when people are talking about resources, remember that most of the valuable resources in a campaign are transported via pack animals, which can be attacked and the resources stolen.

So basically what was said before is accurate, EK's are by and large just Garrisons on a larger scale.

Vitality · Mar 20, 2015

I get where they're coming from Valor. I really do. I'm just sad about it because it's a fairly large and disappointing loss of potential in my opinion.

I'm not championing risk IN EK's themselves I'm pushing for a stronger connection to real time player driven risk in ALL campaigns.

All of which metamorphed into my EK>Campaign Caravan Gateway idea.

--- Edit: Terminator rules would disable caravan gateway and instead reward increased XP gain rates and better end of campaign export win/loss ratios in exchange

Valor_sl · Mar 20, 2015

They simply just don't want to make the EK's a major part of the game. They are the locker room inside a football stadium.

I can definitely see why people would want more out of an EK, and we made plenty of suggestions on the topic as well. But, this game is not about warring kingdoms, which I think a lot of people initially thought. Their comments about GoT didn't help clarify this topic either.

Draegan_sl · Mar 20, 2015

Teekey_sl said:
I guess my issue is that I want a reason to care for them.

Why? I play WOW right now and I give two shits about pet battles or Arenas or PVP or crafting. You don't have to really care about every aspect of the game, as long as you're having fun with the part you do like.

Teekey · Mar 20, 2015

I wish there was atleast some meaningful social choice to be made in the EK. As it stands now, why not just make friends with as many people as possible and try and maximize your rewards?

I'm fine with just focusing on campaigns, but like Vitality, I feel like there's some missed potential with the EK.

And as I've said, we've heard more about social constructs in the EK than we have in campaigns.

Draegan_sl said:
Why? I play WOW right now and I give two shits about pet battles or Arenas or PVP or crafting. You don't have to really care about every aspect of the game, as long as you're having fun with the part you do like.

Because I feel like they could enhance the gameplay in campaigns.

But whatever. No point in wasting my breathe over it since it's clearly not the direction they want to do.

Draegan_sl · Mar 20, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
I get where they're coming from Valor. I really do. I'm just sad about it because it's a fairly large and disappointing loss of potential in my opinion.

I'm not championing risk IN EK's themselves I'm pushing for a stronger connection to real time player driven risk in ALL campaigns.

All of which metamorphed into my EK>Campaign Caravan Gateway idea.

--- Edit: Terminator rules would disable caravan gateway and instead reward increased XP gain rates and better end of campaign export win/loss ratios in exchange

All the shit you can do in EKs like housing, building, fucking shit up all happens inside the Campaign. If you didn't have EK you would just have a client like League of Legends where you just pick what games you want to play and sit there staring at your screen.

Teekey · Mar 20, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
All the shit you can do in EKs like housing, building, fucking shit up all happens inside the Campaign. If you didn't have EK you would just have a client like League of Legends where you just pick what games you want to play and sit there staring at your screen.

That's the thing though, they've insisted it's not just a virtual lobby or trophy case. But yeah, it basically of is.

I also think they've done a poor job explaining the building and land capture that's going to go on in the Campaigns. So that's probably causing some frustration in talking about the EKs because we still don't know a ton about the Campaigns.

Vitality · Mar 20, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
All the shit you can do in EKs like housing, building, fucking shit up all happens inside the Campaign. If you didn't have EK you would just have a client like League of Legends where you just pick what games you want to play and sit there staring at your screen.

See my example about setting up shop and selling dregs resources in PRX's EK so they can import them into Guild Vs. Guild where they aren't able to acquire the rarer dregs based resources kind of makes EK's a unique medium for inter-campaign trading.

That's my understanding of the current system and worth in EK's.

It's currently severely limited almost to the point of not being a viable trading concept due to the end of campaign import restriction and taxes applied (I'd like a more real time once a week or once a day export method)

Palum · Mar 20, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
This, I don't care about female centaurs with no pants and fievel goes west pig mounts, give me a game that functions properly or I'm moving on.

No shit, most of the stretch goals are worthless and just serve to highlight the very modest gains the KS has had. Not everything is going to be a blowout success, but when I compare this to say, SC where it snowballed and worked people into a frenzy... Hmmmm.

Thlayli · Mar 20, 2015

Yeah I'm with the 'EK's should be more than a lobby' crew.

What about a Relic that lets you bane a rival guild's EK? That'd be awesome and everyone would fight for the chance to mess up the other guy's trophy case/top tier crafting stations.

Ukerric · Mar 20, 2015

Sylas_sl said:
What is there to balance?

Fun.

Really.

Until you throw people at it, and watch them play, you really don't have any idea what is really fun (and keep people around for years) and what's not. You need players, and you need devs watching how stuff unfolds.

Draegan_sl · Mar 20, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
See my example about setting up shop and selling dregs resources in PRX's EK so they can import them into Guild Vs. Guild where they aren't able to acquire the rarer dregs based resources kind of makes EK's a unique medium for inter-campaign trading.

That's my understanding of the current system and worth in EK's.

It's currently severely limited almost to the point of not being a viable trading concept due to the end of campaign import restriction and taxes applied (I'd like a more real time once a week or once a day export method)

Well I suppose you can eventually go farm in low risk campaigns, bring back a high yeild of resources. Set up show in some EK and sell to Tuco as they prep for some other campaign.

Again, I think people (not you specifically) aren't paying attention to what the devs are saying and putting their own bias, hopes and dreams into different aspects of the game and letting their minds run wild. It doesn't help that ACE isn't putting out solid details to counteract that.

They might be doing it on purpose to draw more people into the KS though.

But overall, your ideas of going out there and doing a weekly export to your EK sounds like a fun thing to do. Maybe you should make a post on the forums about it.

Valor_sl · Mar 20, 2015

The reason they decided against going that direction Thlayli, is that it contradicts their vision for this game. They don't want you messing up someone elses stuff.

Players of crowfall will be like college basketball players during march madness, but the winner gets to own the court. You and your friends can build a super nice gym and practice and prep for the season, go into the season and compete there and maybe end up the champ at the end. But, if you let teams go to each others courts and take them over, you will run the risk of losing people. What if a team was Kentucky and they just went around beating everyone and no one could stop them because they had too much talent. People would quit.

I think everyone gets it, but I see where they are going with the game and I see it as a potentially great PvP game that doesn't rely on PvE related content. THAT is a breath of fresh air after the past number of years.

Vitality · Mar 20, 2015

More like External Kingdoms am I right? :

Vitality · Mar 20, 2015

Valor_sl said:
The reason they decided against going that direction Thlayli, is that it contradicts their vision for this game. They don't want you messing up someone elses stuff.

So they make a game about messing up other peoples stuff just to say they don't want you messing up someone elses stuff... makes sense.

Teekey · Mar 20, 2015

Valor_sl said:
They don't want you messing up someone elses stuff.

I get it, they don't want me to invade Timmy's $25 plot of land and pillage his $10 Relic Shrine. I don't necessarily see that as a good thing, though.

If it's just a lobby where you safely build upon your e-peen, then make it that. If that's somewhere that's going to provide benefits to your campaign strength, then there should be some risk to it.

Just how I feel about it.

Muligan · Mar 20, 2015

I'm fine with this... if done right it can be a very valuable piece of the game. I felt Garrisons were not fleshed out enough but I loved EQ2 housing/guild halls. If they could some how combine the ideas in addition to their own twists, it could be very addicting and fun. I like the idea of having a large group of people returning from battle, to hang their trophies, improve their home and kingdoms, and possibly even increasing the scope of their economy (not sure how the economy will work but could be a cool thing to caravan between EK's and set up routes). Kind of like when Lanys on EQ first opened we had a couple of Banded tradeskillers covering one end of the map to the next. If you needed banded armor, you sent a tell to Rheeann. She either traveled to you or you met her halfway. I could see an EK being the place to get certain items or crafting supplies instead of going to a marketboard and having access to the entire server. EQ2 did this somewhat. You could avoid fees if you went to the players house. I think while a lot this would be a minor piece of the gameplay could be a really important part to the immersion.

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